Got no time to code : programmerhumor

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 150 points 3 months ago

I mean, you're not hired to "code", you're hired to do software engineering. That usually means working with other people. Reviewing code is a win win situation because both get a second pair of eyes on their code and prevent each other from committing dumb shit that you might have to fix later.

I feel like these memes of hating everything other than lone coding is because you keep working for toxic companies. Ffs you're programmers, it's probably super easy to get another job. It doesn't have to be like this.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago

I think QA engineering needs to become more widespread. The "extra pair of eyes" can't compare to a department of people dedicated to code review and testing.

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 3 months ago

QA and Code reviews do different jobs. Manual and automated testing will not notice your code is shit, so long as all test cases pass.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

That's what QA engineering is for. They are integrated into the dev team and they pull double duty with QA and code review.

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 3 months ago

In my company QA is dedicated to manual and automated tests. I haven't met many QA engineers who could effectively review any of my code.

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[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

You don't want a department that you throw it over the fence to, you want them embedded on your team. Keep those feedback loops TIGHT bois

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Dedicated to testing, absolutely, but they don't necessarily require expertise regarding implementation.

[-] mcforest@feddit.de 8 points 3 months ago

But testing... Is that really necessary?

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 12 points 3 months ago

…we haven‘t been sued by our customers for bad code!

Yes thats due to testing.

Can you prove that?

…

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[-] fubbernuckin@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Ffs you're programmers, it's probably super easy to get another job. It doesn't have to be like this.

Who's gonna tell them?

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[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 51 points 3 months ago

Coders who complain about documenting and tests are coders I don't want to work with

[-] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 40 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Problems caught early are much easier to fix than problems caught later. This applies to any project (I'm not a programmer, but an engineer in the traditional sense).

Just "doing it" without coordination and review is a great way to waste a bunch of effort down the line with re-work.

Edit: typo

[-] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 8 points 3 months ago

While i agree with the principal statement, this also requires two things to work:

First: The scope should be defined properly, so people can contextualize what they are actually doing and reviewing.

Second: If the scope is subject to change, or parts of it are unclear, there needs to be room to consider, develop and try different variants

This is were good management is crucial, which includes giving breathing room at the start. What we tend to experience is the expectation of already good detailed results, that can be finalized but still work if things change significantly.

[-] MinusPi@pawb.social 38 points 3 months ago

Documentation and testing are fundamental parts of writing code.

[-] iarigby@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

Also, tests ARE THE code, and equally important too! However so many people make the mistake of writing tests after the function, when the benefit is less immediate. They also have the illusion that they are done and have to do extra work. And since they didn’t write the test first, they most likely wasted a ton of time and energy on extra work of testing changes manually

[-] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 36 points 3 months ago

Honestly documentation is at least as important as code , but I get you

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 22 points 3 months ago

And isn't testing even more so!?

[-] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Agree, I would put tests higher than documentation, I just got to documentation first and was triggered enough to comment immediately

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 4 points 3 months ago

Hehe, no hate here - I likewise was spinning off of what you said, carrying it forward:-) (bc those are quite important matters indeed!)

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[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 27 points 3 months ago

I solved this dilemma by quitting and becoming a school bus driver. Now I only have to worry about middle-schoolers threatening to shoot me.

[-] stickyShift@midwest.social 24 points 3 months ago

Oh man, the "quick call?"s are the worst

[-] allywilson@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago

"Got a sec?"

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[-] Bye@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago

Imagine actually going to daily standup, wow

I made a daily meeting invite, and told my team to never show up to it. Lets them show up to work an hour later since I put it in the calendar for 930-10.

[-] astreus@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 months ago

Depends on the team. My team do daily standup and it helps. A lot. "What are you working on today and do you need any help to get it done" is a super powerful question to make sure we're all focusing on the same priorities and sharing the knowledge we have, especially in a team of mixed disciplines.

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

Why not reach out to reach to each team member on a daily or semi daily basis to ask that question?

These meetings REALLY get in the way of progress and we've been killing it ever since our new manager started doing it like this

[-] astreus@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I actually tried a daily slack bot instead. The team HATED it with a passion. And the amount of productivity lost on other teams to a backend engineer blocking a systems designer being blocked by a UX flow etc is insanely large. We have never missed a deadline, hit all our revenue targets, and get much. much larger features done in 2/3rds of the time of the next nearest team. Part of that is because we've made sure to reinforce the concept that we are a single team instead of a group of server engineers, backened engineers, frontend engineers, system designers, [removed to protect identity] designers, econ specialists, UX designers, UI artists, and QA working in their own bubble.

[-] iarigby@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I really don’t understand how a 5-10 minute meeting can get in the way of progress

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[-] Bye@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I hear you, but I disagree. My people are great at slacking me or each other when they need stuff. We have a great collaborative atmosphere. They set up meetings with each other and with me as needed, and I’ve heard over and over that they really like that. I have weekly 1:1 meetings with each of them, and usually we hang up after 15 minutes because they know what they’re doing and can get back to it.

[-] astreus@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I mean it really depends on the team. My role is as much translator as anything else. I have:

Infrastructure/Server

Backend

Frontend

Designers (three different kinds)

Performance/Econ specialists

QA

Hearing "Oh I didn't know that, yeah we need to sync" is a common occurrence and on a team of nearly 20 people we never take more than 15mins. We have shared deadlines, shared goals, and work on shared user stories. Having that moment in the morning to go "okay, am I blocking anyone without realising it?" or "I gotta remember to make sure design knows the spreadsheet won't have the thing they were expecting today, it'll be Tuesday instead" is well worth the time.

On top of that, with WFH it's a really good way to cement the team aspect. I wouldn't care so much if we were in the office, but all being remote means we lose the "human" behind the screen a lot.

As I said, different teams and different projects need different things, but I'd argue the reason my team is the number one performing in the entire company is, in part, due to this morning time to get that alignment.

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[-] DmMacniel@feddit.de 21 points 3 months ago

Block your calendar.

[-] nerdovic@feddit.de 24 points 3 months ago

That would imply that people check your calendar before randomly calling. I get calls on Teams even when setting it to appear offline.

[-] alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works 22 points 3 months ago

Lol I get calls during calls

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 months ago

People call you directly without asking? Ignore them ffs.

[-] nerdovic@feddit.de 10 points 3 months ago

Direct co-workers usually ask, it's mostly higher-ups that do it. I guess they think that they're important enough to do it. I absolutely ignore it if I don't have time or are on break.

[-] DmMacniel@feddit.de 6 points 3 months ago

even those higher ups need to learn that their underlings can only be productive when they aren't being prevented/distracted from being productive.

[-] Restaldt@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

FYI teams has a setting to block direct calls and an automated voice message for missed calls.

Mine has been set to reject calls and play an automated message letting the caller know to ping me first on teams ever since my company decided it was an amazing idea to forward every employee's office phone number/calls to our God damned teams account.

I despise spam calls and refuse to take calls unless asked first

[-] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 months ago

Don't answer

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[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago

Docs and testing have no bravado, but they're important. If they're dragging you down, use your problem-solving brain and find a way to make them work for you.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago

(Sincerely, someone who doesn't floss)

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 11 points 3 months ago

[-] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 months ago

I worked freelance for like a decade. Then I joined a “real” studio. Literally 80% meetings, team meetings, morning stand ups, presentations, documentation, and senior reviews, then 20% actual work. My old boss was great with time management but he left and the new leads would lock you into a 3h meeting, most of it to discuss other people’s work, then expect you to make 3 days worth of edits in 3h.

I feel this meme hard.

[-] johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

The idea that coding is the only part of your job is "actual work" is where you're going wrong. The goal is to create robust, well-functioning software that's documented and fulfills what it needs to do, not write an arbitrary amount of code. Your job is more than just doing the part you like.

[-] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 months ago

You sound like a middle manager that brings a net loss to your workplace and justifies their job as crucial because without you, the coders would all be running around the office slamming into each other like 2 year olds.

Coding is the only job. Period. The rest is housekeeping. Much like digging a ditch. It’s not going to get dug if you sit around talking about logistics and reviewing all the other ditches or wasting my time telling me again and again how the ditch needs to be dug. Nor needing hourly updates on how the ditch is coming along, so you can arbitrarily make changes.

If you think I “just don’t get it”, then that totally explains your irrelevance in the work place. Because companies have long lost their way and have prioritized the structure well beyond what they are actually meant to do: get shit done. But then you sound like the type that believes companies are crucial to our success because they funnel money back into the economy and keep society afloat (narrator: they don’t), so I’ll say good day to you sir.

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[-] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

The first 3 are why I can't get any work done anymore. The last 3 I would absolutely love to have more time to do.

[-] Tenthrow@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

Yes testing is such a big problem for those coders.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 4 points 3 months ago

Less time is spent handling on-call issues if you do the code reviews, documentation, and testing...

[-] Ilflish@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

Not necessarily. Also depends on competency of whoever is looking at using your software/investigating and the legacy of the things you described. A whole different scenario if it's because you forgot to write something in a ticket and someone coming to call for help with docker when you have a docker setup guide they never look at.

[-] Matriks404@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

That's why I only code as a hobby.

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