558
First meme (hopefully good) (lemm.ee)
submitted 4 months ago by Val@lemm.ee to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 105 points 4 months ago

Step 1: hit snooze

Step 2: use the extra time to build dual power and/or electoral reform.

Note: The time to build an alternative to the DNC for 2024 was no less than 4 years ago. The time to start building the coalition for 2028 starts no later than December 2024.

Note: the time to build dual power is any day you can afford the time, acumen, and experiense.

Step 3: hit snooze again.

Voting doesn't change anything. Not voting kills us.

We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

[-] MalachaiConstant@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago

Voting doesn't change anything. Not voting kills us.

We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

This is what I've been trying to tell people, especially young lefties.

It just does not make sense to me why you would look at a broken system which gives a massive advantage to one party, see that the people trying to fix the system all belong to the other party, and arrive at the conclusion that both parties are equally at fault and the only solution is to throw your hands up in invisible protest.

It would be one thing if they just said they didn't care, but they seem to be convinced they are actually able to affect change this way.

It's like finding yourself in a fist fight and seeing your buddy just standing there laughing.

[-] Liz@midwest.social 11 points 4 months ago

We need to get ourselves some Approval Voting and some kind of proportional representation (linked is one way you can use approval in a proportional election)!

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago

Approval voting, STAR voting, Ranked-choice voting- I don't care, just get me out of this first-past-the-pole nightmare!

[-] Liz@midwest.social 3 points 4 months ago

Yeah I agree, arguably the proportional representation part is more important, but it's easier to start small and then repurpose your organization for bigger goals. I push for approval because:

  1. practically anything is way better than FPTP

  2. It requires zero voter education to implement

  3. it can easily be adapted to any kind of winner system

  4. A whole bunch of other stuff that gets into graphs and voting criterion and shit like that

[-] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 7 points 4 months ago

Worked sooo great the last time.

[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 4 months ago

This, but unironically. Considering the fact that right-wing violence has decreased, Ukraine has remained standing, and fascist rhetoric is on the decline.

If you're dissatisfied with the results, consider engaging in the aforementioned tactics instead of yelling at people who have a plan.

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[-] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 61 points 4 months ago

You can’t fix the system when its working as intended. The system needs to be torn down and rebuilt

[-] Val@lemm.ee 30 points 4 months ago

I needed a small and quippy option for the meme, but I agree, in this context that would qualify as a "fix".

[-] Smorty 16 points 4 months ago

This is an original? Props! We rarely have these on Lemmy... It's good as well!

[-] Val@lemm.ee 18 points 4 months ago

Yeah. I made It in inkscape. Happy you like it.

[-] casmael@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

Wow cool meme bro x

[-] Smorty 5 points 4 months ago

No way! Inkscape is sick! I gotta learn it more... Only made some buttons with it for now...

[-] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

So what's the solution here? I've heard a lot of stuff about how stuff should be, but the options are not particularly promising. As I see it:

  1. vote local, wait for change to filter up (counterpoint: that's over a long time range, and for every incremental change it seems like there's a Citizen's United, Roe vs. Wade, and PATRIOT Act working in BIG ways in the opposite direction)

  2. vote Biden and try to push him left (counterpoint: hahahaha.... oh, sorry, I mean yeah, it has worked to a certain degree when it doesn't cost him anything or when literally the rest of the Democratic world is against him like with Israel, and only to a small degree, but major changes? Good luck)

  3. Full on revolution (counterpoint: most of the armed and violent people are on the fascist side and have been giddy over the prospect of Civil War 2.0 since Obama took office)

  4. just hold your nose and vote Biden, press and support the Democratic Party to block ways for The Fascists to get more power... register Republican in super red areas to push them away from Fascism, and generally focus on stopping the Fascists first and if we can get back to where we were in the 90s/early 00s, focus on making those big changes. But focus on stopping the Fascists before you lose everything (counterpoint: that is exactly what the people in power want, to give a unending battle to keep what you have so you can't push for more, and instead lose it all by inches).

  5. Don't vote, let the Fascists burn it all down, and pick up the pieces to make our Utopia from the ashes like the Federation after the Eugenic Wars. (Counterpoint: ...do I need to point out how silly this is? If the Fascists even manage to burn it down instead of doing what Fascists do and expand the crazy and make the world a battleground, the type of people who "rise from the ashes" are rarely the good, Democratic, peace-loving kind. Sorry Star Trek)

I'm not seeing good options, so if anyone can say another option, or how my conclusions are incorrect, I'd love to get new information. But it seems like choosing the best of bad options, and anything but voting Biden (and Democrats) is the path to suffering. As bad as it is, it can always get worse.

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Saying "the system is working as intended" is wrong on so many levels. The system was cobbled together and you're relieving the ones abusing the system of their blame.

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

And how many people are you willing to kill to do that?

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

Find the leftist candidate.

Oh, wait you cant?

Better post propaganda that promotes a fascist. That will fix everything. Yup.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

If you can't find a leftist candidate, fuckin be the leftist candidate.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 18 points 4 months ago

I probably should have put a check on the blue and remove the third option. That would have made it clearer.

Nothing wrong with snoozing. Just don't expect it to fix anything.

[-] hobovision@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Can't fix anything if we use all our resources preventing regression. Snooze implies we go back to sleep for 4 years.

🟥 go back to sleep (bad dreams)

🟦 get up (get to work)

⬜ sit there (along for the ride)

[-] Val@lemm.ee 21 points 4 months ago

This is in the context of voting. Voting blue will achieve nothing other than delaying. The point of the meme is to encourage people to not just vote, but to actively engage in politics in order to make things better. Basically the same thing you said.

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

It will achieve nothing other than the first president to walk a picket line, progress on infrastructure and climate change, and a president vocal on womens and LGBT rights

Nothing. At. All.

I swear progressives wither dont know how to read or are so high on their own farts they cant smell anything else.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago

It will achieve nothing other than the first president to

Both candidates have already been president. Or have the Democrats decided not to have Biden run again?

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

And he will still have done the things i said he did.

I get it. You're mad the US hasnt achieved fully automated gay space communism.

However, progress is made in baby steps, not in massive overnight societal change. That always, always, always results in a much, much worse totalitarian situation.

Which, by the way, you are advocating for.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago

Weren't you the one complaining people don't know how to read?

Nobody in this thread is advocating not voting for Biden. The opposite in fact. People are being honest that Biden getting elected is simply treading water, Trump getting elected is sinking.

Of course you vote to not sink, but don't expect that to improve things. You then continue to do other things that will actually improve things until the next election.

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

But that's incorrect, were not treading water.

Biden has made progress that you refuse to acknowledge.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Biden has done a couple things to pay lip service without actually standing up for it (ie forcing rail workers back to work.)

He's also sidestepped congress multiple times to fund and supply genocide, pushed legislation to strip leftist organizations of nonprofit status, and pushed legislation to make ANY criticism of Israel legally antisemitic so any school that allows pro Palestinian protests can have funding and accreditations pulled by the Board of Education. Not to mention in 2016 when the DNC went to court to make it clear they do what they want and the voters can suck their dick.

Dem voters are complicit and active in that fascism by never caring about Republicans, and exclusively attacking leftists with all the same fascist tactics they claim to be saving us from.

If I hold up a sock puppet while I punch you, I still punched you. Walking a picket line while pushing fascist policies is still fascist.

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[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 23 points 4 months ago

Love it, though would have put "abolish the system" rather than "fix the system" myself, since that implies trying to work within the existing framework, rather than completely outside of it.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 15 points 4 months ago

That is a fair point. Although there is a point to be made that "the system" is democracy and overthrowing a government that doesn't represent the population is a part of the system. But I agree that most people probably don't think that way.

If you can think of any improvements feel free to make changes and upload your own version.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 5 points 4 months ago

I see what you're saying, and I think it would probably appeal more to those with left leanings who aren't actually anarchists (yet 🤞), because it isn't as big a shock to the system to think about fixing a thing they know vs abolishing that thing and starting something completely unfamiliar and most likely still foreign to them (even as an anarchist, thinking outside of the indoctrination, and constructs I've/we've been socialised with since birth can be a challenge), but then I'm also a big believer in not coddling people in to change - facing and sitting with the discomfort of seeing the box we're kept in and starting to think outside of it is a huge and really important part of unlearning what we know and even how we are, so personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol

I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!

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[-] CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

How often do you see toppled democracies get replaced with something awesome? That seems like a pretty big risk.

[-] Jentu 15 points 4 months ago

Bad cop vs Good cop vs burn the precinct down and protect your own neighborhood.

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 10 points 4 months ago

It's like those websites and applications that ask you:

Hey do you want to turn on this bullshit feature?

[Yes] [Ask me again later]
[-] gramie@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 months ago

Hopefully good

Polictics

Well, when one of the three words (one of which is a number) in the title is spelled wrong, I'd have to give it a thumbs down.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago

Really? a typo and a spelling mistake is your bar for bad content? That seems a bit harsh.

Also this video sums up my feelings about english spelling.
https://youtu.be/TEsqY4MH40s?si=Y2CnBLoYCcCPLOj0&t=660

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[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 8 points 4 months ago

How?

[-] Val@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

If you don't mind reading there is a lot of more specific questions and answers in this FAQ:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-full

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 17 points 4 months ago

That's great info and I'll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there's 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn't a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?

[-] Val@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago

The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn't a "real" option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn't be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It's more of an open question. eg "You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism."

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 "What do anarchist do instead of voting?" and J.7.4 "What would a social revolution involve?". These might help answer your questions.

In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn't matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that's that voting isn't enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won't make a meaningful change.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 10 points 4 months ago

It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?

So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that's incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn't do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I'm in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one's going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it's pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn't looked out enough to see what hell that is.

Anarchist Library: At its most basic, voting implies agreement with the status quo.

This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I'll look into it more, but that's a false premise to start on. It's idealistic to the point of self-destruction.

You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.

Medicine doesn't stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.

My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don't see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren't infiltrated. And if there's a fascist government, there likely won't be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don't control. So I guess I don't understand what type of groups you are referring to.

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[-] db0@hachyderm.io 4 points 4 months ago

@Val oh that's a good one!

[-] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Not an American, but in a country well within the imperial interior (Australia). Jesus Christ, go vote, and go vote for the less shit candidates (the democrats).

The voting system is entirely broken, granted, but you not voting does not help.

It we vassals of the US get the MAGAs in charge, shit is going to hit the fan, and unlike you, we can't do anything about it other than plead with you to go vote.

First-past-the-post means go vote for the less shit candidate.

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this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
558 points (100.0% liked)

Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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