Not Asking : microblogmemes

[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 139 points 6 months ago

It’s your fucking duty. It’s why you got an ’estate’. You are a necessary facet of democracy but you need to do your part and act like it so you deserve the protections and benefits provided to you for doing so - like benefit of trust and access to politicians.

With few exceptions, you’re failing to be our eyes and ears and mouths and are instead mouthpieces for ownership and interests.

If it was just your job to make money take off the news armour (yeah you Fox) and stand naked in front of us as the liars you are.

Oof sorry. Got ranty there. It’s all getting to be too much.

[-] kakes@sh.itjust.works 30 points 6 months ago

Can you explain the "estate" thing like I'm a 5 year old non-American? (Only one of those is actually true, but I won't say which one)

[-] joby@programming.dev 67 points 6 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate

Just like within actual government there's supposed to be balance of power between different branches or houses, there's this idea that the role of the press is to hold governments accountable.

(More of an ELI12, but that's the gist of the idea)

[-] kakes@sh.itjust.works 21 points 6 months ago

Sadly, I feel like the whole "separation of powers" thing is under attack in America and elsewhere as power continues to consolidate over time - even where it pertains to branches within government. Traditional media has long been lost in many cases, and even "alternative" media is so flooded with bad actors that it's nearly impossible to get signal through the noise.

Not to get too dour, but if media is in this state now, I hate to think of where it will be once AI starts to gain a real foothold in our political discourse. I assume we'll start to see the effects of this really become evident this years, with American federal elections ramping up.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 17 points 6 months ago

The author Tim Wu makes a great argument about corporate power consolidation leading to fascism in his book The Curse of Bigness. He states that leading up to WWII, nations promoted the size of their respective national champions, which in turn led to pressure for an authoritative command economy to ensure their continued dominance. It's a great read and dire warning for the world's current state of affairs.

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[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

France had 3 estates, The Nobles, The Clergy, and the Everyone Else. Another two got added by political theory people over time. Number 4 is the journalists. Number 5 is the alt journalists.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 months ago

Is there a sixth? And please don't say alt alt journalists, because that would be very disappointing.

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[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago

You know, I thought I could but on brief search it’s… complicated.

This is the best nugget from Wikipedia that sums up the general notion I’m trying to state that the media has been afforded a role in society - and that they aren’t acting as an independent class.

The modern term the fourth estate invokes medieval three-estate systems, and usually refers to some particular force outside that medieval power structure, most commonly the independent press or the mass media.[3][4]

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[-] fosho@lemmy.ca 90 points 6 months ago

"bbbbut thuh Dems haven't done anything to EARN my vote" and other such brain dead takes from ding dongs who don't understand basic pragmatic logic.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 52 points 6 months ago

* From dingdongs who are repeating -- accidentally or on purpose -- some bullshit that was professionally constructed to emotionally resonate and sound convincing on surface level, so that when people spread it on social media it can do its job and help Trump get elected and fuck up the country absolutely beyond recognition

[-] Zacryon@lemmy.wtf 8 points 6 months ago

The reason, that you already got some upvotes for this, shows, that Lemmy has more users who are able to read more than a couple of words.

[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Neither of us can convince someone whose friends had their asses beat by cops at a university protesting Biden's action. Only Biden can do that, by ending the genocide.

When dems lose for not doing the things they need to do to get elected, are you going to blame the dems for not winning what should be an easy election by just doing the things the people want him to do, using all the means at his disposal, or are you going to blame every single voter in the US for not voting for a party that shows nothing but contempt for them?

[-] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 6 months ago

Sure Biden has messed up with the protesters, but the Republican nominee Trump, would have had you shot.

[-] Mirshe@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

Considering his cabinet has stated they actively had to dissuade him, several times, from simply ordering military elements to "gun down" protestors during the Floyd protests in 2020...yeah.

[-] FreddyDunningKruger@lemmy.ml 16 points 6 months ago

"what should be an easy election" <- this is how we know you are campaigning for Trump. There is no such thing as an easy election. Since 1992, Democrats have won the popular vote in 7 out of 8 elections, but that didn't stop Bush from beating Gore, or Trump from beating Clinton.

lol, all your type does is talk about dems dems dems, not a single word about Republicans or how much worse they have proven to be when they are in office.

Trump said he would help Israel end the genocide, I guess that's what you want after all, right?

[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Oh, so you're still under the delusion the DNC did nothing wrong, and it's the voters who were wrong for not voting harder.

Look at it this way: The democrats can change their own policy. They cannot change the psychology of the masses. No matter how much you yell at people for pointing it out, facilitating genocide, restarting student loans, letting Texas keep their child drowning fence, standing around while states ban abortion, are bad for electoral outcomes.

The republicans are psychopaths whose policies are bad for the material conditions of 99% of Americans. This has been true forever, but here we are, with dems somehow right of Richard Nixon. You have to have absolute dogshit policies for it to even be close, and that's exactly what got us here. "Well trump might have restarted student loan payments but worse" isn't gonna convince someone who is building up credit card debt now because they can't balance rent, food, and student loan repayments.

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[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I notice a certain slight tendency in your comments to talk about China, implication that aid for Taiwan was "bought" from the US congress by someone, tendency to delve into the details of tariffs and suchlike.

Quick question for you: If I protest in China against a Chinese policy I don't agree with, what happens to me?

(This isn't a whataboutism -- China doing something doesn't excuse the US police from doing a much milder version of the same thing. I don't think they should be beating or arresting protestors here either. I'm just curious how universally you apply this concern for protestors who had their asses beat.)

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[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

Dems lose? We all lose. You people seem to forget you're fucking everyone. Your feelings don't matter, outcomes do. If you know Trump wins in this scenario, and you know there may be no more free elections, how does this "force the Dems to learn for next time?" Braindead ideological bullshit. You're a fucking cult.

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[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Sadly they are the only voices trying to keep the Dems aim to the left.

Dems kept sliding right after coopting the middle with Clinton. Basically a Good Cop-Bad Cop routine.

Now there is no left, aside from Sanders.

Authoritarian to the left, fascist to the right, here we are.

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[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 80 points 6 months ago

If Journalists point that out and report on it, then the Republicans will refuse their interviews and to come on their shows.. and they much rather have the fall of democracy, than risk losing access.

[-] Zink@programming.dev 49 points 6 months ago

Here in the land of the free and the home of the brave, we don’t have time to worry about the fall of democracy when the fall of ratings is on the line!

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[-] theareciboincident@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

This is the paradox of liberalism.

You have blue MAGA outlets like NPR that spent the last 8 years being “fair” to both sides, telling their audience the antivax fascist psychopaths are just as valid and worthy as the left trying to give people education and healthcare.

As if conservative views are even worth recognizing.

Liberalism without a STRONG left wing always ends in fascism, and the liberals are more than happy to join the fascists (see: literally all liberal discourse on Lemmy).

Guess what the US has spent the past 80 years doing. Real coincidence every time a country leans left, they are overthrown by CIA puppets.

So now you have liberals in literal tears trying to get their guy elected without even fucking understanding the issues at play. They don’t give a shit.

[-] FreddyDunningKruger@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago

It's a two party system, jabroni. If the liberals crying their tears don't get their guy in office, who do you think DOES get into office?

newflash: Trump gets into office. Which must be your guy, right?

[-] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 6 months ago

If you’re going to join conversations with people you might want to check your tone, as you could have the most sound argument ever but if you come across as a prick you’re going to turn people off your pov.

Be better my guy and talk to people how you would expect people to talk to your mother.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

Private Media's duty is to the shareholders.

And if you look at who the big shareholders are voting for (and donating to and campaigning for) it's the Trump GOP.

Sinclair Media, iHeartCommunications, News Corp, Amazon Media Group, Twitter...

These guys are lockstep with the conservative movement.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 9 points 6 months ago

These groups also donate heavily to the DNC.

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[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 32 points 6 months ago

Hahahah imagine expecting liberal media to stop fascism.

Liberalism creates the conditions of fascism; Capitalism tends towards crisis, eventually it must be buttressed by applying colonial methods at home.

Liberals always do everything they can to keep us on the path towards fascism, since socialism represents a greater threat to capitalism.

[-] nifty@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The end of democracy in the U.S. is not going to come from fascist conservatives, but from too-busy-with-life normies, the type who don’t vote in anything but presidential elections. They’re just too busy to notice anything other than their bills.

In their minds, they’re going to “punish” the blues for inflation while ignoring that the reds only ever made them poorer. These type of people don’t care about genocides (someone else’s problem, there’s always brown people dying, Israel is an ally etc), abortion rights (only stupid people get pregnant or only sluts need that), or trans people (that’s too weird for them). They don’t care about climate change (it’s a topic up for debate, it’s not factual), but have kids. They don’t care about workers rights, but work deadend or multiple jobs. They don’t care about getting more healthcare rights, but are a medical emergency away from bankruptcy.

I am not saying these people are dumb or callous, they need outreach and they need to be presented clearly with their options and outcomes. If you can, volunteer to sign people up to vote and present what’s at stake.

[-] ytg@sopuli.xyz 9 points 5 months ago

In my country, basically everyone accepts climate change, except perhaps the most conservative and those who already believe in conspiracy theories. What is going on in the US?

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[-] suction@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago

But but Biden didn’t personally go to Gaza to act as a human shield against Israeli shelling, so I don’t care if Trump wins!!

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[-] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 20 points 5 months ago

So, something the better journalists have to be careful with, is using neutral language even in certain clearly one-sided situations. That's not just to not upset people on both sides; it helps to inform the truth to those who want to read carefully and critically.

If I read, "beware! The right-wingers are conspiring to make a fascist government!" then all I can do is shrug at another sensationalist conspiracy clickbait.

If I read factual details of things said, done and published by said right-wingers: it turns out I'm capable myself of seeing something is bad or good. Sure, it's still the journalist's job to interpret the facts to a degree, but those facts should be as transparent as possible and attaching inflammatory language, even if appropriate, often obscures that.

There is a place for opinion writers. But we need, I think, more of the less-opinioned honest truth for honest people. Even if that scares you that readers might not take up your call to arms as quickly as you think they ought.

Sorry, that went a bit off the rails, because I'm not quite sure how to express - though I still think it's true - the important place for journalism that doesn't call a spade a spade but tells you its shape so you can understand.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Absolutely - and I agree entirely. However - there are a lot of choices that get made with regards to words and context indicators when writing a piece (Video is a whole other box of frogs but similiar things apply).

Just sticking to text, let's say, I'm not suggesting that the NYT should write a front page article entitled Watch Out: Crazy Trump Will Kill Us All (although, that's upsettingly not a zero-percent chance either.)

What I am saying is that they need to stop giving trump the benefit of neutrality. That was a typical and to a small-extent-reasonable excuse they made in 2016. "Let's see what kind of President he'll be" and "maybe he'll grow into it" and sorts of rationalizations that I ranted against at the time and I think was extremely validated by the subesquent nightmare of an administration.

So that's over. Now, we know who he is - he's the kind of guy who lies at the drop of a hat. He'll do it by force of habit. He's incapable of empathy. He's so singularly focused on grabbing money (not 'making money' now, he doesn't care about that), and weilding power over his perceived enemies that he's an absolutely dismal choice for president. He staged a failed coup right in front of us. And still remains unrepentant. Anyone who's not a complete cult member can see that.

So the NYT writing their article can use that to leverage his latest outrageousness and limit the faux-respect (he deserves none) such as "former President". Fuck that - that's not a "fact" as much as it is an "editorial position". He's also a former game show host. He's also gone bankrupt five times. (four? five, whatever) He's never been a billionaire. These are facts. They don't use those. Why not.

Because. The tenor of the NYT is that they are "supposed" to be lofty - distanced - respectful. Well, they're failing us with that. Trump is using that against them and us.

Maggie Haberman's mom used to be trump's publicist. And she's the trump-whisperer? Fuck.

Same can be applied to any of the video-based services. (Minus the sniffly air of old money). I'll try to use a future post to dive into one of the articles and really highlight it because once you see it, it's pretty blatant they're tipping the scales towards trump. It shouldn't be close at all. It is because they're doing that. On purpose.

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[-] Crampon@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

Is this a meme?

[-] repungnant_canary@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

It's the truth

[-] Crampon@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

Sure. But i subscribed for memes. If I wanted simplified compressed political statements I would go to twitter.

Try posting it to woodworking or knitting if themes doesn't matter.

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[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 14 points 6 months ago

Journalists say this all the time. Does this guy only follow fox news?

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 42 points 6 months ago

Okay it's Saturday May 11th, what are the stories from CNN, NBC, ABC, WaPo, and NYT (front pages please) which say that. I just checked and there weren't any.

There's trump-in-court, trump-in-irs-trouble, other things like "some say he shouldn't be campaigning in a blue state on his day off from court" or whatever.

It's not like a breaking news story. It's got to be folded into the telling of all the other stories about him. He tried - and failed - to stage a goddamned coup for fuck's sake.

Incompetently planned, ridiculously reasoned, as one would expect, but he did it nonetheless and I want it to say IN EVERY ARTICLE ABOUT HIM that he tried to stage a coup which failed. Interview justice officials as to what - EXACTLY- are they going to do when he does it again. What protections are in place to prevent him from gutting appointees and protections? Where are those news stories?

And why, after 2016 and everything that we're saying here happened then, would anyone need to explain this?

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 37 points 6 months ago

Their whole framing of the story should acknowledge that he's an enemy of the United States. He got dozens of CIA assets killed, he supported our enemy in a shooting war that's still going on, and he tried to kill a bunch of politicians to seize power. Instead, they're treating him like a candidate for president. Every single newspaper should be running stories about what a catastrophe it would be if someone who's so clearly hostile to the United States managed to seize control of the United States government.

It's like those editors from World War 2 that wanted to tone down coverage of Hitler because he's a popular and successful leader. I mean, your statement's not fully objectively wrong. But also, objectively, you're missing the point.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

those editors from World War 2 that wanted to tone down coverage of Hitler

Fucking bingo dude.

[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 9 points 6 months ago

I guess that you're right they cant explictly say "Trump is a facist" because they will get sued but they hint at in and imply it in so many articles. Here's a quick search which shows what I mean about journalists talking about this. You could find 10+ of these types of posts from each of the big news sites.

Opinion: Trump’s praise of dictators tells us all we need to know

'It's happening right here': The authoritarian threat to American democracy

Why does Trump keep talking like a fascist? Because it works

Twelve signs Trump would try to run a fascist dictatorship in a second term

Talk of a Trump Dictatorship Charges the American Political Debate

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You could find 10+ of these types of posts from each of the big news sites.

These are good examples, but here’s the problem with them:

Opinion: Trump’s praise of dictators tells us all we need to know

This is an Opinion article, not a news article. In particular, the NYT likes to hide behind these, allowing opinion writers free rein while hedging and minimizing and normalizing the candidate in all the actual News articles.

'It's happening right here': The authoritarian threat to American democracy

Likewise this is an interview with an author, not a news article.

Why does Trump keep talking like a fascist? Because it works

Another ‘editorial’, and Maddow is pretty great but sort of preaching to the choir. Not news reporting as such.

Twelve signs Trump would try to run a fascist dictatorship in a second term

Another Opinion piece, they even preface the author with “Perspective by” to distance themselves from it.

Talk of a Trump Dictatorship Charges the American Political Debate

This is the only actual news article of the bunch, and it is largely based on trumps famous ‘i’d be a dictator on the first day’ quote which was unfuckingbelievably outrageous in its own right. It’s probably worthy of a breakdown but I’d have to get past the paywall first. Also to note it’s on page 23 of the A section, not exactly front page anyway.

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