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Our reasoning is different, but their heart is in the right place (files.catbox.moe)

submitted 6 months ago by Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world to c/atheistmemes@lemmy.world

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[-] taiyang@lemmy.world 44 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I mean, to be fair, if there was a god like the ones Christians claim to have, it most certainly would be evil. The funny thing is you can't use the Problem of Evil argument on a dystheist so they're one philosophical argument better than your run of the mill theist.

(Edit: my auto correct made the christian god plural and I'm keeping that phrasing out of spite, haha)

[-] Sgn@programming.dev 12 points 6 months ago

What's a dystheist?

[-] Glytch@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago

Someone who believes that God exists and is evil.

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 35 points 6 months ago

Dystheist or (less commonly) maltheist.

[-] Sgn@programming.dev 7 points 6 months ago

A maltheist hates god

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

That’s a misotheist.

[-] lengau@midwest.social 10 points 6 months ago

Not to be confused with a miso-theist, who believes god exists as a form of soup.

[-] rmuk@feddit.uk 2 points 6 months ago

What if I bite it and then it hates God?

[-] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago

That's just a denomination of pastafarianism

[-] Zidane@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Which one's a mesothelioma

[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Maltheist falcon

[-] Moghul@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Oh I'm reading that right now

[-] Furbag@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago

For anybody curious to know, the term is Dystheism.

[-] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

I prefer Deweytheism

https://youtu.be/HSgBrs7NJxs?si=gMxUi5liY6vAHpKT

[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

This isn't equivalent.

This person believes in a god that is evil or malevolent.

Atheists argue that there is no god that is either good or evil

I don't believe there is a good god nor do I believe there is a bad god ... or a child god, or an intelligent god or a dumb god.

I just don't believe there is any god

[-] rudyharrelson@kbin.social 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Atheists argue that there is no god that is either good or evil

Depends on the flavor of atheist, in my experience. I'm an atheist, but I've never argued that there is no god, because how the hell would I know that?

Some use the term "agnostic atheist" to describe this kind of atheist, but I'm of the mind that it doesn't need the qualifier "agnostic" since atheism is simply lacking a faith in any god, in contrast to antitheism, which is the active belief that there is no god. Antitheism is, ironically, a belief system rather than the lack of one.

[-] maniclucky@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Pedantically, agnostic atheism means that you don't assert you know there isn't a god ("I don't believe there's a god") vs gnostic atheism having a positive assertion there definitely isn't one ("There is no god", usually followed by some logical argument).

Antitheism is the position that theism should be opposed, not what you described and it's a philosophical position (which could be argued is a type of belief but that's straying from the topic).

[-] EvilHankVenture@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Yes it is fully possible to be an antitheistic agnostic atheist.

[-] rudyharrelson@kbin.social 1 points 6 months ago

Perhaps my understanding of the term "antitheism" is incorrect. Though I checked Wikipedia before making my comment. Wikipedia's first paragraph says:

Antitheism [...] is the philosophical position that theism should be opposed. The term has had a range of applications. In secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to the belief in any deity.

Given the latter definition, I think I used it appropriately. Though it's apparently a spectrum, similar to atheism/agnosticism.

I stand by my assertion that the term "atheist" doesn't need the "agnostic" qualifier to specify that a given person isn't asserting that there is no god. In my experience, people incorrectly assume all atheists are de-facto antitheists and believe, actively, that there is no god, which just isn't the case. But the additional clarification by adding "agnostic" is certainly helpful in terms of clarity; I can't argue against that.

[-] maniclucky@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

The qualifier isn't terribly necessary most of the time. Most people don't draw a distinction between ag/nosticism because it's pretty personal generally. I consider myself agnostic given that I cannot know for sure, but ultimately, people that logic themselves into atheism (and thus are gnostic atheists) are no less valid.

That said, antitheism is distinct from the other terms and I contest the generalization that people assume atheists are antitheists, but that's gonna vary a lot by how religious a region is (the more hardcore a person is, the more they see atheism as being an attack on them). It's a bit of a bad subsetting issue. All antitheists (excluding the rare individual that believes in one or more gods and believes they should be broght down like an anime or a progression fantasy novel) are atheists, but not all atheists are antitheists.

[-] rudyharrelson@kbin.social 2 points 6 months ago

I contest the generalization that people assume atheists are antitheists, but that’s gonna vary a lot by how religious a region is

I live in the southern USA; can't drive 5 minutes without seeing a church or two. I have on several occasions met individuals who, upon learning I was an atheist, either assumed I believed there was no god, or that I actively worshipped satan, lol. Most people around here are pretty religious so my experience is definitely skewed by that factor.

[-] maniclucky@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Fair. I'm in the midwest and we have our crazy, but nothing like that. I've found that, outside the nutters, it's more live and let live.

[-] h3mlocke@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago

Sounds like agnosticism

[-] rudyharrelson@kbin.social 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Upon further reflection, I have known people who were both religious and agnostic at the same time; people who had belief/faith but admitted they couldn't possibly know the truth. I guess that does make a good argument for the additional qualification of 'agnostic atheist'. I guess I just too regularly encounter people who assume that all atheists actively believe there is no god, so I've become a bit defensive as to what the word actually means. I have acquaintances who are atheists who say "there's no god" with absolute metaphysical certainty, and erroneously consider me a like-minded person, which I have always found odd because atheism doesn't require an active belief in the absence of any higher power.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 1 points 6 months ago

Agnostic is the opposite of gnostic. The terms have to do with whether you see evidence for the position or not.

Which is all not to be confused with capital-G Gnostic, which is a totally different thing. Unfortunately, the history of philosophy is messy that way.

[-] iiGxC@slrpnk.net 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3koeHN-6mU apparently some early christians thought that's what the god of the old testament was, and jesus came to save them from him

[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

I have the feeling the ancient Egyptians thought a little like him. All their gods seem to be kinda evil

[-] iiGxC@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 months ago

Same with greeks

[-] pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Well if you think some sort of gods exist, then look at things like child cancer, it's obvious they are evil. Luckily gods don't exist so with the advancement of science such evil will no longer exist some day.

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 months ago

Atheists saying God isn't great is implying they believe in God which means they're not atheists. 🤔

[-] maniclucky@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

You can argue with theists and assert that their god sucks on their terms without believing in god.

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago

We can assert that their idea of what God would be like, if he existed, is bad.

[-] h3mlocke@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago

Sounds kinda Gnostic, they referred to him as Samael, or the Demiurge, a blind diety/angel who falsely thought he was god

[-] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago

I was about to say "protest atheist" but that might be different in that it's someone who acknowledges a higher power, but believes this "god" is either evil or incompetent so it doesn't deserve the respect or acknowledgement of being a god.

Basically if they saw god they'd say "idk man I don't see no god here I just see a lil' bitch"

[-] crawancon@lemm.ee 2 points 6 months ago

Dax Riggs sang "god is a child" but not sure if it was original now or not.

[-] uriel238 2 points 6 months ago

When it comes to the range of theistic possibilities, the popular and historic religions of humanity only occupy a tiny section. Far greater are the theistic suppositions considered in philosophy (or not yet considered) in which God is indifferent to or even opposed to the affairs on earth, whether the conflict between Palestine and Israel or the countless wars between and ant and termite hives.

this post was submitted on 01 May 2024

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