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Don't you love how a cop who drunkenly threatened his girlfriend with his pistol and has multiple discipline actions on record for excessive violence is still allowed to be a cop?
This is my take as an Akron resident:
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We have a new community controlled local police oversight board.
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The officer was called with the pretext that someone had been brandishing a firearm / pointing a gun at houses.
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You can't see very well what the officer could see because the view is obstructed. It's entirely possible that the kid complied but accidentally pointed the gun towards the officer.
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The officer shot exactly 1 time and shot in a non-lethal manner (the hand was shot). This was not a murder attempt, this was in a way the extra mile, the kid will hopefully make a full recovery.
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The fake gun is not an orange tipped fake, it's very similar to a real looking gun. The kid also was not with friends "playing pretend" or anything like that.
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As soon as the kid started yelling the officer immediately deescalated the situation and moved towards first aid.
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The officer does have a messy history, particularly when alcohol is involved and when off duty, but was entirely sober at the time of the shooting and has never been known to be drunk while on duty.
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We have had issues in the past few years locally particularly with teen violence. They've been trying to solve it, but some kids are carrying guns and robbing people, some kids have been carrying guns to protect themselves from the other kids, and evidently some kids are carrying fake guns too.
I'm glad this kid got to walk away with their life. I hope their hand isn't too messed up and I hope they don't have too much mental distress. They never should've walked around in public with a toy gun and "showed it off", and I hope they never do this again.
If the officer really did something wrong, I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it, but as it stands, I think the officer reacted reasonably.
Not trying to discredit or anything but in #4 1 shot is surely good compared to emptying his clip, but shooting or aiming a gun at somebody, the intent can't be "non-lethal".
If you can be shot and killed for possession of a gun then we don't have the second amendment right to a gun.
We need to address this. Because our second amendment rights are being violated especially if you are black.
The far right keep telling us we have this right any time we try pass any type of guy law. Yet cops kill people with guns and even with toy guns or no.
When do we get the right to defend ourselves from these thugs?
The 2nd amendment is a farce and the US would be a much better place if it were abolished.
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Also, there's houses all around them. Any shot could easily injure or kill someone else. This wasn't a "good shoot". It could easily have resulted in tragedy.
I disagree that there's no such thing as a "non-lethal" intent when it comes to shooting. You should never point a gun at anything you don't want to kill is the advice to prevent tragedy -- it's not some "law" about what happens.
No shooting is ever a good thing, especially in an urban area. Nobody is happy this happened (and I'd preemptively wager the officer is second only to the kid and his family). If you watch the video that officer didn't come off as "angry" looking to start a fight or for someone to "make his day." This wasn't like the videos where a cop walks up to someone sitting on a motorcycle gun drawn or shoots someone sitting in their truck.
The reality is that he had a real reason to believe that kid was a threat to his life, had very little time to react, and he wouldn't be the first police officer we've lost if he did nothing and it turned out to be a real gun (which again, he had every reason to believe it was one). In a lot of department's training that kid would've been shot in the chest -- not the riskier shot of the hand (I'm not entirely sure this guy didn't "break policy" specifically in an attempt to make sure this kid lived).
The right answer here is ultimately to get the guns out of the hands of these kids; that's a problem that goes far beyond this particular police officer though and has a lot of complex issues.
The new mayor is a big community policing advocate ... maybe if this officer had known this kid the reaction would've been better. But ultimately, the underlying problem is this kid had something indistinguishable from a firearm (under the mistaken assumption that, that would make him somehow safer -- he says in the video he's carrying the fake gun to feel safe) and that's what started this whole chain of events.
The whole thing is a tragedy, through and through.
Yeah the first thing you learn about firearms whether you're hunting or in the military is do not flag someone unless you are prepared to kill them. Even if you don't intend to.
I agree though it is good to hear the cop managed to only shoot one round.
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This is my take as an Akron resident:
Careful, you'll scare the cops and they'll start shooting
have a new community controlled local police oversight board.
Who apparently are apparently not willing or allowed to provide actual oversight?
officer was called with the pretext that someone had been brandishing a firearm / pointing a gun at houses.
And all police officers should know that witness testimony is more often wrong than not.
You can't see very well what the officer could see because the view is obstructed. It's entirely possible that the kid complied but accidentally pointed the gun towards the officer.
I don't know why you give someone with a history of violence, that includes brandishing a firearm at their own girlfriend the benefit of doubt?
The officer shot exactly 1 time and shot in a non-lethal manner (the hand was shot). This was not a murder attempt, this was in a way the extra mile, the kid will hopefully make a full recovery.
Essentially saying that he panicked and has poor aim. No one is taught to shoot "in a non-lethal manor", you always aim for center mass.
The fake gun is not an orange tipped fake, it's very similar to a real looking gun. The kid also was not with friends "playing pretend" or anything like that.
I'm sorry, is it illegal for him to be carrying a toy gun, or even a real gun? This is America, we are allowed to open carry, or conceal and carry with proper licensing. Did the officer ask if he had a weapon on him? Did he ask about licensing? Or did he just give a vague command for him to raise his hands?
soon as the kid started yelling the officer immediately deescalated the situation and moved towards first aid.
Most people don't have to hear cries of anguish to avoid murdering children. Most people would do anything possible to avoid shooting children...... Are we congratulating people for de-escalating problems they escalated in the first place?
officer does have a messy history, particularly when alcohol is involved and when off duty, but was entirely sober at the time of the shooting
The problem is he should have never been back on duty in the first place. He got suspended, fired, reinstated, suspended and when he returned from suspension, he was put back on suspension within a month.
locally particularly with teen violence. They've been trying to solve it, but some kids are carrying guns and robbing people, some kids have been carrying guns to protect themselves from the other kids, and evidently some kids are carrying fake guns too.
So we have a problem with children with firearms? And the solution is.... to arm a man child with more firearms than the children, and somehow less violence happens?
They never should've walked around in public with a toy gun and "showed it off", and I hope they never do this again.
I played with toy guns when I was little, hell I played with real guns when I was little. This is not a crime, and even if it were, would summary execution be appropriate?
Why do you hold children to a higher degree of responsibility than a police officer?
officer really did something wrong, I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it, but as it stands, I think the officer reacted reasonably.
He shot a child...... One who was legally following his orders. In what circumstances is this not something wrong?
I don’t know why you give someone with a history of violence, that includes brandishing a firearm at their own girlfriend the benefit of doubt?
Because I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt; even people who reply with a condescending tone. I also acknowledge that people make mistakes and people's personal lives and professional lives are different things.
Essentially saying that he panicked and has poor aim. No one is taught to shoot “in a non-lethal manor”, you always aim for center mass.
Plenty of people go to a range and practice shooting. You're making a lot of assumptions about skill here that are entirely your own bias.
I’m sorry, is it illegal for him to be carrying a toy gun, or even a real gun? This is America, we are allowed to open carry, or conceal and carry with proper licensing. Did the officer ask if he had a weapon on him? Did he ask about licensing? Or did he just give a vague command for him to raise his hands?
You are not allowed to go around and point a gun (real or not) at buildings. It's called public menacing and it's illegal. That is what the call was about.
And all police officers should know that witness testimony is more often wrong than not.
There is a big difference between eye witness testimony (i.e., remembering the facts and identifying people) and inaccuracies in reporting (I saw a car driving way too fast, I saw a person rob my grocery story, I saw a person shoot someone -- these aren't things people often get wrong).
The rest of this I'm not touching it's loaded with biases, condescending tone, and disregard for the particulars of the situation.
Because I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt; even people who reply with a condescending tone. I also acknowledge that people make mistakes and people's personal lives and professional lives are different things.
Seems like you are more focused on giving that doubt to the officer than the boy who was shot.....
Plenty of people go to a range and practice shooting. You're making a lot of assumptions about skill here that are entirely your own bias.
Lol, I go to the range to practice. You know where they put the targets on the dummies......not on the hands. Firearms are not nonlethal weapons, anyone with any training knows this. When you learn to shoot, you are always told to shoot center mass.
You are not allowed to go around and point a gun (real or not) at buildings.
Any what evidence says he was pointing at building? A phone call from some random lady does not validate him shooting a child.
What if I randomly called the police on you and told them you pointed a gun at me, where would you like to be shot?
There is a big difference between eye witness testimony (i.e., remembering the facts and identifying people) and inaccuracies in reporting (I saw a car driving way too fast, I saw a person rob my grocery story, I saw a person shoot someone -- these aren't things people often get wrong).
That is semantic reasoning, there is no inherent difference between the two. Also, people file false police reports constantly.
not touching it's loaded with biases, condescending tone, and disregard for the particulars of the situation.
Lol, like you don't have a condescending tone to your writing? The difference being is that your claims actually deserve condemnation.
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- The officer shot exactly 1 time and shot in a non-lethal manner (the hand was shot). This was not a murder attempt, this was in a way the extra mile, the kid will hopefully make a full recovery.
It's hard to tell if the shot was intentional. The office is talking to the kid and exiting his vehicle when he shoots him. Cops aim at your center, not your hands.
- The fake gun is not an orange tipped fake, it's very similar to a real looking gun. The kid also was not with friends "playing pretend" or anything like that.
Orange tips haven't stopped police from shooting people in the past. They've even claimed criminals paint orange tips on real guns. If he were playing with friends police would probably be responding to reports of an armed gang.
- The officer does have a messy history, particularly when alcohol is involved and when off duty, but was entirely sober at the time of the shooting and has never been known to be drunk while on duty.
I'm not seeing anywhere that the cop had his BAC tested, or that he was tested for any substances after this shooting.
- We have had issues in the past few years locally particularly with teen violence. They've been trying to solve it, but some kids are carrying guns and robbing people, some kids have been carrying guns to protect themselves from the other kids, and evidently some kids are carrying fake guns too.
I'm not sure what your point is. Should police treat teens in your area as threats because some are carrying real guns?
This kid will absolutely have mental distress and is probably going to be terrified of cops forever. And if the officer did do something wrong and they get to the bottom of it, then what? This cop has already proven he's a danger and hasn't faced any real consequences.
It’s hard to tell if the shot was intentional. The office is talking to the kid and exiting his vehicle when he shoots him. Cops aim at your center, not your hands.
It would be one heck of a coincidence if this kid just so happened to get shot dead in the middle of the hand that was holding the fake gun.
Orange tips haven’t stopped police from shooting people in the past.
The point isn't that they haven't stopped it. The point is this toy gun wasn't one of those toy guns; the officer had no clear marking to go off of. You can go on to say "he would've shot him anyways" but that's your bias, not anything we can know for sure either way.
I’m not seeing anywhere that the cop had his BAC tested
The point is that wasn't an allegation against the officer by the kid, any other officers, or in any of his prior incidents/suspensions; i.e., there's no reason to believe that was the case here based in reported facts.
I’m not sure what your point is. Should police treat teens in your area as threats because some are carrying real guns?
The point is that this isn't Mayberry and there was reason for the officer to believe that this teenager they'd never met, in an area that's had problems with this, posed a real threat to them. People under 25 are (sadly) responsible for the majority of violent crime in the city currently.
This cop has already proven he’s a danger and hasn’t faced any real consequences.
Well, we'll see. The citizen oversight board is new and untested. The mayor is similarly new and untested (but passionate about the issue). The office of chief of police is in transition and currently unfilled.
It would be incredibly hard to intentionally shoot someone in the hand in this type of situation. I don't think his hand was the intended target. The cop hasn't even fully exited his cruiser when he shoots. It says he shot him within seconds of the encounter.
The cop isn't acting like the kid is a threat to him. He rolls up maybe 15 feet away, directly in his line of sight, talks to him through the window, and starts to exit his cruiser. He didn't observe from a distance, or seek cover, or call for backup. He needlessly put himself in danger if he thought this kid was going to try to kill him.
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At the very best, this is gross negligence on the officers part. At worst, it’s attempted murder. Even if a person has a real gun, that is not a justification to execute them on the spot or to even discharge lethal weaponry in any manner.
This cop belongs in prison.
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Very rational take.
It doesn't surprise me you get a good deal of downvotes.
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Thanks for the breakdown. I'm very surprised he shot him in the hand since that is very much against training. A toy gun without an orange tip is pretty hard to tell it is fake from 10m away.
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Tamir Rice! The police will claim everything and will never admit they were wrong. 10 years and they have learned nothing but black kid = bad guy.
Fuck all cops. If a Kid scares you that much ,then fucking quit. Once again, FUCK ALL COPS!
but when you quit you don't get to shoot people any more.
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When I was little it was completely normal for kids to fuck around the neighborhood with toy guns. Cap guns, water guns, whatever. And we "shot" each other and random people with them. This was even before they started putting bright orange barrels on everything.
And you know what happened? Nothing. Nobody freaked out. Nobody called the police. Nobody died. Kids being kids. Times sure have changed.
Maybe, maybe not. The problem that skews this thought is you didn't have 24/7 news coverage shoved in your face from tv and social media. You wouldn't know if it were happening unless it was local to your town or it gained national coverage.
Fair point. I'm also white so.. yeah
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A fucking CAB.
Tavion Koonce-Williams was shot in the wrist on April 1 in Akron by Officer Ryan Westlake, a nine-year department veteran, who was responding to a call about a person pointing a gun at houses. Akron police said the gun Tavion had been carrying was a “facsimile.”
“Tavion is heard multiple times saying: ‘It’s a fake … I just wanted to be safe,’” Okolo said in a statement Monday, adding that “at no point was that toy gun pointed at anyone’s home, at any individual, and certainly not any member of the Akron Police Department.
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In the video, Westlake is seen at 7:11 p.m. in his patrol vehicle slowing down upon seeing Tavion walking on a block.
“Hey, where are you coming from, can I see your hands real quick?” Westlake asks through the open window as he begins to get out of the vehicle.
Westlake then reaches toward his department-issued weapon and points it at Tavion, and a shot is fired seconds later.
Westlake then reaches toward his department-issued weapon and points it at Tavion, and a shot is fired seconds later.
That fucking exculpatory passive voice again. I am sick and tired of the media's pro-authoritarian editorializing!
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Parents, teach your kids gun safety, even with toy guns. Just because it's a toy doesn't mean it can be waved around as such. If the kids learn to respect what it means to carry at a young age, maybe these kind of incidents would be less common.
Blaming the victims much?
How about cops learn not to shoot kids........
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this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2024
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