231
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Polls can’t predict – but they can warn. And I’m not sure our horserace-obsessed media are heeding the warning

One of the things these numbers suggest is that the journalists are not getting the truth across to citizens on some key points (or if they are, that truth is being ignored).

The poll respondents claim that one of their big concerns is the economy. If that’s the case, they should be happy with Biden. Among the factors: low inflation, significant growth and low unemployment. Paul Krugman, the Nobel laureate economist, wrote recently: “The economic news in 2023 was almost miraculously good.” (Even the cost of a classic Thanksgiving dinner, he notes, was down 4.5% last year.)

If the economy is that strong and that important to voters – and if Biden can take at least some of the credit – why isn’t it coming across? That’s something for the Biden campaign, primarily; but it’s also something for media people since journalists are supposed to be communicating information so that citizens can vote with knowledge. That should be a higher priority than generating profits, ratings and clicks, but one eventually despairs that it ever will be.

Another major voter concern, of course, is Biden’s age. He’s 81; Trump will be 78 in June. They’re both old; both have memory gaps and both exhibit confusion at times.

Only one of them, however, talks about some migrants as “animals” or predicts a “bloodbath” for the country if he loses. Only one is facing dozens of charges related to crimes including trying to overturn a legitimate election. Only one has promised to be a dictator on day one of his presidency and only one has allies that are meticulously plotting a radical revamping of how America works.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] DevCat@lemmy.world 72 points 7 months ago

The press has learned that "engagement" is the only way for them to survive. The problem is that they are generating a false narrative to attract more viewers. Basically, it's become clickbait. They refuse to show all the information because then voters would see it and stop viewing them daily.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The press

Bruh. Do you even know who wrote this article?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sullivan_(journalist)

Like, she was the public editor of the NY Times during that election...

And this whole article is about how she still doesn't even know the basics of polling like margin of error.

If you were surprised Hillary lost in 2016, the only journalists you should be mad at is ones like this author who just kept telling everyone Clinton was a sure thing and Trump couldn't possibly win

Which is the same situation this election with Biden, except his numbers are even worse

[-] blargerer@kbin.social 9 points 7 months ago

Being surprised Clinton lost in 2016 is fine; she was the favourite to win. That's just different from it being a sure thing, which this author doesn't seem to understand.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

...

The numbers had her winning a few states by like 2-3%, with 5% margins of error a month out from the election.

If someone was surprised she lost those states after going to California of all states for a victory lap while trump campaigned in those close ones...

Then we should not listen to their advice after telling us they still don't understand statistics.

This isn't just some random person, she is a famous journalist with a nationwide platform who seems to think ignorance and zero standards is the best path forward.

The fact that she supports democrats over republicans makes this more concerning, not less.

If the only two options are both like this, it won't be long till we have no options.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 30 points 7 months ago

I learned the hard way to be skeptical about the predictive power of public opinion polls.

I remember election night 2016 all too well, as I hit delete on my partially pre-written Washington Post column and instead tried to look into the future of a Trump presidency. It was a future that wasn’t supposed to happen

Polls weren't wrong...

It's just way too many people who call themselves "political experts" only looked at popular vote polls because they're lazy and don't know what they're doing. If they did look at state polls, they had no idea what magin of error means, and people learn that in highschool math without ever taking a stats class.

The 2016 election results were literally in range of predictions for 2016.

Clinton was never a sure thing, but journalists like the one who wrote this article just kept screeching at anyone trying to explain that to them.

Just like this same journalist is still doing 8 years later when people say Biden isn't popular.

They haven't learned a fucking thing. And they never will.

[-] DancingBear@midwest.social 5 points 7 months ago

Part of it is that people want to vote for the winner. So by repeating the narrative that there candidate will be the winner encourages others to want to vote for that person….

But the polls of Hillary versus actual outcome were absolutely within the margin of error

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Nah.

They want blind loyalty to the party, zero criticisms allowed and 100% votes from every party member.

She's no different than Faux News talking heads telling her viewers to disregard all science and only believe her opinion.

Just because she can't understand polling doesn't mean polling is worthless. But I've seen far too many people on here claim the same thing lately.

It's dangerous to give these anti science nutjobs a platform, and statistics is a science no matter how much some people disagree with the results.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

The methodology and sampling of polls needs to be scrutinized. The NYT poll from a while back showing Trump +3-4% was incredibly sus. It had a very large rural presence in the sample, and the poll itself suggested that women were split 50/50 on Trump. Given how races have gone post Dobbs, that feels highly unrealistic.

Polls are only as good as their methodology. Frankly, I think many aren't representative. We shouldn't be complacent about things, but I think we are flying blind.

[-] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 7 months ago

They also call landline numbers - which is why it skews rural and dumbass. Anecdotally, every person I know where I live who has a landline fits many of the Trump/Boomer stereotypes. Their cellphone is their backup number and they don't give it out because they still believe they are paying for each minute even though they have unlimited voice and text.

[-] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

I’m starting to feel like if that many people want him, then they fucking deserve him

[-] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Get your guns and your non-perishable food and tradable commodities that don't require special storage.

And be prepared to hunker down if shit really does hit the fan when he gets back in.

[-] nomous@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Everyone think back to the height of pandemic. The lockdowns, virtual all social functions stopping, talk of "curfews." Shortages of all kinds of normal items, stores were rationing toilet paper lol.

Imagine that but for years.

I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and BIPOC friends: Now is the time, get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn a little first aid, you just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your community. The police will not protect us, they've shown they'll happily shoot us in the face with rubber bullets and club senior citizens to the ground. If a caravan of MAGAts visits your neighborhood with bad intentions you'll find no support from those in power.

[-] Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Work towards peace, prepare for the inevitable.

SocialistRA.org

[-] skeezix@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Came here to say this. A society gets the leaders it deserves.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] ReallyKinda@kbin.social 10 points 7 months ago

Oh good another economist swearing things are good because they’re using 2022 as a reference (@ that dumb thanksgiving anecdote). It baffles me that they’re baffled.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/food-inflation-in-the-united-states/

[-] Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 7 months ago

Biden keeps giving weapons to Israel so they can kill more brown people and these people are like "Gee it's the fucking press' fault". All those uncommitted votes and not one mention of Palestine in the entire article.

[-] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Is your last line not agreeing that it’s the fault of the press that the issue driving the votes isn’t being talked about?

[-] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

I mean it has been covered. People just ignore it. I'm still getting accused of being a Russian plant even after thousands of votes were cast for uncommitted. Either those votes were cast by Russians or those people don't have internet I guess.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Green line go up became a meme 20 years ago when Bush tried to take a victory lap on low inflation and stock increases.

Stop using indicators that don't matter to the average American. Those are measurements for economists to look at the top level picture, not for measuring the standard of living for the majority of Americans.

[-] blargerer@kbin.social 4 points 7 months ago

'polls can't predict' ??? its their chief function.

[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

Might be their purpose, but they’re done so shittily these days they can’t be relied on. When was the last time you were polled? Do you have a landline? Do you answer unknown numbers on your cell? Do you go to the mall?

[-] HoustonHenry@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Agreed! IIRC, Boomers are the largest population that still has landlines. Thats just one reason I don't really pay any attention to polls

[-] DancingBear@midwest.social 3 points 7 months ago

The polls for Hillary were within the margin of error

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2024
231 points (100.0% liked)

politics

19097 readers
2693 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS