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this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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The gun hatting equivalent of both sides ππ€£π€£π€£
82M owners. The numbers aren't in your favor.
Assuming you mean the US:
The highest number of gun violence deaths of any developed country ππ€£π€£π€£
The highest number of children killed as well ππ€£π€£π€£
The number one killer of children being guns ππ€£π€£π€£
Yeah, the numbers are definitely NOT in our favor π€¦
How does any of that relate to most gun owners being responsible people? Folks really suck with trying to ignore the absolute numbers and try to use relative comparisons to serve as justification.
The VAST majority of gun owners are responsible and never experience anything like this. Using parents who left their toddler in the car buying fireworks at night is an absurd representation of your average gun owner. Gun owners like this are the exception and the numbers aren't hard, you're talking about less than a hundredth of the percent of the population.
Most people are responsible drivers. Doesn't change that we enforce speed limits.
While this may be true, it's still safe to drive as though everyone is a dangerous stupid lunatic. Not everyone lets you know by owning an Altima.
I completely agree. Thank you for agreeing on the responsibility. Can you find a single statement in this thread where I state anything about the laws or enforcement? My point is simple and limited and you and this entire thread have thrown the entire gun debate team at me.
Gun violence should be reduced, national consistent laws should be put in place, background checks should be consistent and thorough.
Most gun owners are responsible.
These are not mutually exclusive ideas.
Yeah sure I agree with all that. Frankly, and saying this as a former rural Appalachian Republican who owned firearms, I think we should go the UK route and effectively ban them altogether. I think I can make a compelling argument that they (a) do not make people safer, (b) do not defend against tyranny, and therefore (c) yield an overall net-negative to society. To me the crux of the issue isn't the "responsible" gun-owners, but rather the ones who do fall through the cracks; for there are enough of them who have a serious impact of our nation's bottom-line.
The fact that the number one killer of children in the US is guns?
You are asking me how that fact relates to responsible gun ownership?
Think really hard about how those children were killed by those guns, and maybe you can figure it out.
The children who died by guns are either:
Killing themselves, meaning that an irresponsible gun owner gave that child access to a gun, either deliberately or not deliberately. Irresponsible!
Being killed by the owner of the gun. This one should be self explanatory. It's irresponsible to use the gun you own to kill a child.
Killed by someone with access to someone else's gun. Again, whoever owned this gun was irresponsible enough to allow their weapon to be accessed by someone else to kill children.
You can't be this naive.
No it's not relevant to the argument that most gun owners are responsible. Well it is, only in the sense that it proves it. Even the worst country in the world is overwhelmingly responsible even you consider population size.
I think you misunderstand.
It's not important that many gun owners don't end up allowing their guns to be used to kill children. Your argument is miniscule, inconsequential, and not helpful to the sickness in the US society.
It is important, tantamount, and very relevant that because the US has so many guns, that the leading cause of death to children are the guns.
Idgaf about most gun owners, I care about reducing the number of children being killed.
Why don't you care about reducing the number of children killed by guns?
No, I think you misunderstand and want to turn this into a debate about guns when I made a simple statement. Most gun owners are responsible. Most gun owners never experience gun violence because of irresponsible gun owners. To say our imply most gun owners are irresponsible is a lie.
If you didn't give a fuck about him owners you shouldn't have run your mouth with false information to my very simple and scooped statement which has nothing to do with the point you are trying to make.
No, I think you misunderstood, and want to turn a very important debate into a pedantic point about sheer ratios without wider context.
Increased gun ownership has been repeatedly shown to increase gun violence. That's a fact. To say that it's "responsible" to increase or even maintain the levels of gun ownership is false.
To say or imply that most gun ownership is responsible is like saying that most cigarette smoking is responsible...except when you consider every fucking horrible ill it wreaks upon society.
You shouldn't run your mouth with false information that is so "very simple and scooped", because that misses the entire fucking point.
Be less simple, simpleton.
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These clowns will pray to take your guns and call you stupid for owning them while fretting about Trump and his cult seizing power and banning LGBTQ+ folks from existing.
And right up until yesterday you would have said the same thing about these idiots while fighting tooth and nail to let them keep their guns.
All gun owners are presumed responsible right up until something like this happens.
What makes you think they still don't?
No, I would have said I didn't have a clue about these individuals. I would take as many bets as you'd offer on a randomized selection of gun owners. I take that bet all day.
Or irresponsible people who haven't encountered consequences yet.
Potentially, but that implies leaving guns around outside of safes around kids isn't all that dangerous considering the high number of gun owner and guns.
I don't believe that's the case. I think it is more likely a few idiots cause a majority of the pain and loss of life.
I have no data on this but anecdotally I can honestly say I despite being around idiots and gun owners in rural country with my now trump loving mother, that I have not met 1 single person even remotely close to dumb enough to leave a 2 year old in a car in the summer of GA, unbuckled and free to roam the car, that has a unlocked loaded gun.
I understand the challenge with using personal experience, but in the absence of any real data, this is what I have to work with.
They very deliberately said "think they are", not "are".
And they would be correct in both thinking they are, and actually being correct in their gun safety habits.
Nope. Most gunthusiasts aren't anywhere near as responsible as they think they are.
This classic Jim Jeffries bit comes to mind, especially the part about the self defense pretense.
Oh, well if a comedian says so then the numbers MUST BE WRONG!
Fun fact: most good comedians are actually highly intelligent. It takes a lot of creativity, psychological insight and often knowledge to consistently make people laugh about stuff they didn't necessary consider fertile ground for hilarity.
Thinking comedians are less informed than your average Republican congressclown from Rifle, Colorado or the 1st district of Texas says a lot about a person, none of it good.
Also, what numbers are you even talking about? Arrest statistics? Convictions? Things originating in Wayne LaPierre's ass?
I agree many if most are smart. But smart means different things and does not mean anyone should take him seriously from a bit. So unless Jeff, is rattling off a statistic that even implies through a causational link, that shows any evidence of 40M irresponsible gun owners then I'm not sure I care about his comedy routine not that it would disprove my point in any way.
They should when the bit itself is full of poignant arguments expertly refuting common myths. Which is exactly what he does in this very bit which you apparently refuse to even watch.
It's Jim. Jeff is part of his surname. Big Trump saying "Chairman Un" vibes π
For someone who's yet to provide any to prove his assertion, you're awfully preoccupied with statistics
You know that some factual conditions can be inferred through reason, right? That's what "Jeff Jimries" does in the bit you automatically dismiss.
Clearly. It has convincing counterarguments to the claims that you seem to think are somehow proven by many people having guns.
Do you think that the fact that almost everyone has shoes mean that the vast majority of people walk with a healthy posture?
Easy claim to make when your "point" is as hollow and unsupported as a bendy straw in a vacuum.
I've seen the bit. I agree with most of it. It's entirely irrelevant. You are just trying to bring the entire gun debate to a small, limited scope statement.
How is it inferred, in this bit, that most gun owners are irresponsible. That has gone above my head.
Dangerous idiots are in abundant supply.
The numbers really don't support any meaningful mass of irresponsible gun owners. The challenge is that the consequences of those few are typically life.
You either have greater faith in the percentage of humanity that is responsible than is warranted, or your standards for responsibility are where I would expect considering your sealioning about your stupid toys.
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