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this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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The problem with this debt forgiveness by a thousand cuts is spending hours researching it then finding out you arbitrarily don't qualify because some highly technical reason.
This technocrated BS isn't helping any but the lucky few that end up qualifying.
Are you saying because this doesn't help everybody then it shouldn't be allowed to help anybody?
I hate that logic so much, it's taking over this whole platform
Are you defending a politician's fix to a broken system with dozens of highly specific and hard to understand reforms?
If Biden had the choice between one broad fix that was easily communicated vs dozens of micro reforms; I'd prefer the broad reform even if I didn't personally qualify. Democrats are our only hope and if they stop tripping over their own feet it will be better for everyone.
Are you not informed about the political realities and the limits of power of the Executive branch?
I think we all would, and Biden tried the big broad fix. The Supreme Court shot it down in June of last year:
Supreme Court strikes down Biden student-loan forgiveness program
"By a vote of 6-3, the justices ruled that the Biden administration overstepped its authority last year when it announced that it would cancel up to $400 billion in student loans. The Biden administration had said that as many as 43 million Americans would have benefitted from the loan forgiveness program; almost half of those borrowers would have had all of their student loans forgiven."
source
So instead of doing nothing, Biden is working within the limits of the power he does have to provide student loan forgiveness. Yes its patchwork, yes we'd like a broader application of student loan forgiveness. He tried. Its not in his power.
The president is the most powerful person in this country. He is explicitly empowered by Congress to forgive student debt. The only actor here that is limited in power is our SCOTUS who constantly over step their bounds, make up judicial theory out of whole cloth, or ignore their own rules.
How come I never hear the experts say they are limited power in these executive vs judicial debates?
The office is, yes. It still doesn't mean he's an all powerful king. We have power divided into 3rds to provide checks and balances. The Executive is only 1/3rd.
I'd like a citation on that claim.
Then why are you complaining that Biden isn't doing enough?
That part is correct, but the Supreme Court will probably make up some fake "major questions" to deny it.
https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ltr%20to%20Warren%20re%20admin%20debt%20cancellation.pdf
Funny you bring up a king. Biden is empowered by congress to forgive debt, people broadly support student debt relief. How is forgiving debt acting like a king in this circumstance?
I think you are confusing the actions of the unelected SCOTUS who routinely takes actions against the will of the people. If Biden wants to stop unilateral actions, he literally needs to fight against this far right SCOTUS.
Why are you arguing about student debt relief if you don't know the law that empowers POTUS? It's cited by Biden himself, but you can google yourself, you might learn something.
I asked for a citation on this. Show me where you're seeing that please.
You make the claim, you've got to back it up.
I'm not a fan of the current make up of the SCOTUS, but its never been their job to represent the "will of the people". Their job is to interpret laws written by the Legislative Branch and signed into by the Executive.
I don't think you have a good grasp of the basics of our system of government.
If you're looking for insurrectionists, you'll find them on the Conservative side.
When the trifecta of the president, congress, and the voters all disagree with the courts, why can't they act against them? And who exactly can act against SCOTUS?
No liberal or progressive should spend time defending this deeply undemocratic judicial branch.
Congress disagrees, specifically the House of Representatives, and "all the voters" currently disagrees with SCOTUS? Huge citation needed.
"No true Scotsman", eh? I'm pointing out the rules in our Constitution for how our government works.
We have a peaceful transfer of power during administration changes. I don't understand how you are so quick to try and throw that away. Thats what Trump tried to do on Jan 6th. Why are you suggesting following his playbook?
As I said before, congress passed a law that allowed presidents to forgive debt, are you saying congress didn't support that?
Go read Biden's own citations, on where he gets power if you are interested.
Stop ignoring SCOTUS, where did they get their power, it certainly wasn't our constitution. You are out here with a white glove looking for faults in everything but the Roberts court. The most corrupt court we've had in my lifetime.
For the third time point to valid source.
"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" -Hitchens
Consider yourself dismissed. You're dancing from point to point as soon as your current point is too weak. I'm guessing you'll just do that forever because your arguments are too weak to defend. Feel free to reply to oblivion. I won't be replying. Have a nice day.
Just look up the law the Biden administration cited in his original debt relief and his response to SCOTUS.
Why would you argue with someone online about student debt forgiveness when you don't even know basics like the law Biden cited.
problem is he was blocked from doing broad based so he is squeezing things through as he can.
Do you want debt reform or not?
Congress empowered the president to forgive debt. The courts ignored standing rules to even take that case and SCOTUS has no power to overrule both congress and the president.
President's have ignored SCOTUS before but Biden doesn't even have to do that. He can forgive debt like he's doing now but do it broadly and instantaneously.
If SCOTUS later rules against that broad forgiveness, there's nothing administratively they can do. No politician D or R would reinstate $.5 trillion in voter debt just to appease the unelected SCOTUS. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.
you realize what your saying is a longer form of what I was right? because your initial question makes it sound like I was saying he should not be doing what I pointed out rather than me pointing out he is doing what he can.
If you believe forgiving the debt 100k students here and there is reform, then we are in disagreement.
I think over 100 million student debt holders will need some type of debt forgiveness to actually reform things. That why I push for broad forgiveness.
And yes Biden can! It's his administration and admins forgive debt all the time. We are so many liberals in this thread defending SCOTUS?
he can't because he tried and got it blocked so he is working at it as he can based on the ruling. When a ruling like this is made you have to dissect it and see what you can work around that is specified in the ruling. that is what he is doing.
What are you saying? Biden himself says the ruling is wrong and will do any means possible to forgive student debt. He's doing that on a minor scale, he can by his own account, do it at a larger scale.
you make no sense. just because he thinks a ruling is wrong does not mean he does not need to abide by it and he is using any means possible within the law and certainly he meant legally. We know the man that well enough.
yes but it did ban blanket. which is why he is carving out sections as he does now. I don't get you. They stopped him from doing blanket and now he is doing piecemeal as he can. He is doing exactly what you are asking him to do but it sounds like its not fast enough for you. You realize drafting and getting this stuff done is not easy. its not just a declaration like michael scott thought bankruptcy is. This is actually why trump is so bad. He has no concept of the work that is involved for things to happen. Its part of why he so easily did not pay his workers as he just has no concept of what actual work is like and that the majority of things are not done just by making the decision.
Are you a Biden supporter who is also defending the legal opinions of the conservative supreme court? You might need to step away from politics.
I have no idea how you seem to be drawing that conclusion from my conversation so far so I can't answer your question. Our you saying im defending it by him dealing with the reality of it???
So just stop paying 🤷 I have over 80k and I haven't paid anything in over a decade. I just don't care. They can cancel it, or not, makes no difference to me, I'll never pay anything.
You should probably not take financial advice from this person.
They'll take your social security money
More than that, they'll garnish your wages eventually. It happened to me once when I was barely getting by. I had to go to court and show my finances on public record and be humiliated to get them to back off.
I live and work outside the US, they can't touch my wages
So your advice is: 1) don't pay it and 2) work and live in a different country. Super reasonable! /s
Work and live in another country is actually pretty darn good advice if you can get out of this shit hole.
No, I'm not giving advice to do anything. The op was frustrated they would not get their loans forgiven, so suggested the possibility of not paying. It's an option. No payment as a form of protest. And I definitely did not tell anyone to live in a different country... Learn how to read
What social security money? I've pretty much never worked in the US, never paid in. I've lived outside the US for 16 years now.
Do you think that might possibly have something to do with it?
Yep, they took mine even when they weren't supposed to anymore for at least two months after I got them dismissed for TPD. When I tried to get back the overpayment they literally told me they can do anything they want and I would never get my money back. They were right. At least they never got the 27k back that was cancelled. Eat shit Nelnet.
I mean, I truly am happy for you and your spouse...really, I am, as someone coming up on 40 and still with five figures of student debt.
That said, you really only responded to the quoted portion by saying in so many words that you're "the lucky few that ended up qualifying".
Which, again, is great!