Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
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One side is working to dismantle democracy. The other side is not. If you don't vote blue you are enabling Republicans to enact Project 2025. You would enable Republicans to take away rights from LGBT people in America. You would enable abortion bans and enable even more of the genocide in Gaza. You would enable Republicans to do all the types of stuff listed in the meme, and they will try.
I am convinced some of the far left that won't vote for Biden because of the war in Gaza are being influenced by Republicans. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those people are Republicans trying to get people not to vote for Biden. It may not be an ideal situation, but if you don't vote for Biden because you think he is handling the war in Gaza horribly, you are doing exactly what the Republicans want you to do. Maybe someday we'll be able to vote for someone better than him. But for now, you have to understand the reality of our two party system, and deal with it. At the very least, don't do what the Republicans would want you to do: staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
For all their many flaws: Democrats leave office without attempting coups when they lose.
Republicans now know they can elect a functional fascist if he has a little popular support. Democratic institutions may not be lucky enough to hold again.
The electoral Congress decides who's president, though. Why shouldn't I as a far-leftist vote third party to express my discontentment with a democratic party that only wants to appeal to the right? I'm tired of people telling me Biden is good enough when we had a actual progressive who had a shot just a few years ago. The climate can't wait, and the Palestinian people certainly can't. A placid, centrist left in the face of fascism looks useless to me I'm not sorry. Read a fucking history book.
People often say that voting third party is throwing away your vote, but using your vote as a protest like you describe is perfectly valid. Politicians from the major parties do care about how they can appeal to swingable voters, and third parties getting more votes does makes them more influential for future policy. You give up having influence between the two people who actually have a chance in the current election, but realistically you didn't in the first place if you don't live in a battleground state.
It's your vote. Don't let other people chide you for not spending it on what they think you should. Just use it for a cause that's worthwhile to you. It's the people who don't vote at all that get ignored.
Fuck I needed to hear that, thanks. I just believe a lot of Biden voters are relentlessly optimistic and more than a little naive- there's a lot of propaganda afoot lately but I think it's important to talk about my choice too. Obviously we need things like ranked-choice voting for third party votes in this country to make a real difference ASAP but IIRC if a party's candidate gets even 5% of the vote in a election they qualify for some federal funding. I don't think it's impossible to fight for better representation and win in the long run that way.
You had an actual progressive years ago...yes. You don't have one this year.
You say the climate can't wait...so which path is better: 1 - push for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, invest $2T in green tech and infrastructure, OR 2 - boost oil and gas production, roll back environmental regulations
Palestine can't wait...which path is better: 1 - publicly support Israel while pressuring them to limit civilian casualties, work towards a cease fire OR 2 - sending ICE to break up pro-Palestinian protests in the US to remove any protesters here illegally, implement ideological screening as part of the immigration process, stoke anti-muslim sentiment here and abroad.
Read a fucking history book? The Repub is using the same power-consolidation strategy as Hitler, there's Nazis chilling at cpac, LGBTQ folks are being targeted by Republicans across the country, burning books, politicians changing the contents of history curriculum...they say history doesn't repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. Well, this is straight-up plagiarism.
Yes because there are two paths, only two. Revolution is never a option and we should eat ALLLLL the shit they feed us, thankful for scraps as the fires burn more and more intense. 2050? Do you hear yourself? The damage is already irreparable, that's far too late. We need action now and a president who hasn't sold their soul to oil, if such a thing could ever possibly exist. I AM lgbt (trans) and IMHO this is a problem because he's looking out for conservative billionaires instead. I tell you to look at the history because I agree, the Republicans are Nazis... And a centrist left conceded power to them or had it stolen then too.
Show the viable candidate.
I'm not calling for a violent revolution because I've been to a war zone before, and I don't want that here. That's the only 3rd path I see for this election cycle. My daughter is also LGBTQIA so it's personal for me too.
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You're not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you're making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It's downright selfish imho.
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
no it doesn't. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.
i think they'd rather some other candidate win. that's probably why they're voting for some other candidate
Make it make sense
the democrats are fundamentally closer to republicans in status and solidarity than they are to most working class americans that they claim to represent.
True, but irrelevant. You haven't explained how they're worse for failing to prevent the republicans from doing stuff
you are interpreting what i said as democrats are worse than republicans. i don't really see much of a difference in them at this point
Are you blind? How can you not see a difference?
he also did fuck all about east palestine and let norfolk southern run the show
When he said he's the most pro-union president ever, he was right. But he's still a capitalist so it doesn't mean shit. A pro-union capitalist will still let corporations get away with negligent homicide.
I'm not going to stay home. I'm going to go to the polling place and leave that part empty on the ballot.
Here's the bottom line: I cannot bring myself to officially support someone who I admit is an active supporter of genocide. Listen to yourselves. You are literally saying that I should feel bad because I won't support someone who is actively supporting genocide. They are carpet bombing children, intentionally starving them, denying them medical care, all because of their ethnicity. He is expediting military aid to make sure they can.
I wouldn't vote for Hitler just because I believed his opponent was worse. The reason I wouldn't vote for Hitler is because of the genocide. I have to draw a line somewhere. If anything, I should probably have drawn it somewhere before genocide.
BTW, I'm not saying you're a bad person if you do vote for Biden, or even that I'm somehow better for not. I get it. I just can't bring myself to do it.
[Edit: Americans, if you're thinking of replying to me, consider instead or additionally going to Ceasefire Now and writing to your representatives. Maybe if there's an end to the genocide before November I'll be willing to vote for Biden.]
You are a bad person if you don't vote against Trump, who is the actual comparison to Hitler.
I'm voting against Trump and Biden. biden spent 50 years in power making trump possible.
So you are voting for Trump.
no, I'm probably voting for Jill Stein again, but I haven't stopped donating to cornel west yet
So Trump supporter, got it. Please don't fucking be registered in Wisconsin.
Be useless somewhere else, thanks. - America
neither of them are trump. I think you have problems with reading comprehension.
and Im not registered in Wisconsin but I am in a swing state that went Obama Obama Trump Biden.
When Trump wins your state, just know that you are personally responsible.
the only people responsible for trump winning are people who vote for him
If you simply look at the numbers, you will see that if for example trump gets 10 votes and biden gets 8. The people who have not voted for either one in this scenario are enabling Trump to win. This is only relevant in swing states though
The only candidate enabled by any vote is the candidate for whom that vote was cast
This guy thinks Navalny was a Nazi. He's just a Russian asset.
this is just ad hominem
I hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November. Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows. Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty. Work with the system so that you can change it. Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Allowing Biden to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
"Reasonable and not bloodthirsty": expediting military aid to help the slaughter of children.
Nothing I am doing is outside the system, and voting for Biden won't help change the system.
Hubris is thinking that because other people disagree with you they must be ignorant and lack awareness. Hubris is thinking that if other people act differently from you, we will all burn down.
You don't consider canceling primaries for a state that habitual votes against party favorite to be dismantling democracy?
Not even a couple cycles after the dnc's lawyer told a judge primary votes don't matter and they can appoint anyone and the judge agreed?
They're not equally bad, but at this point it's hard to call either democratic
Which will depress turnout, even if the people trying to earn you still vote for Biden
so, out of curiosity, what has biden accomplished (or any one, really,) done to stop any of that?
so far, the only thing he's successfully achieved is... increasing the DoJ's focus on domestic terrorism. which, is something, I guess.
After three years of this shit getting worse; why should we believe Biden is able to actually stop it and protect our democracy? it took him two and half, or so, years for him to get the DoJ to assign Jack Smith to investigate trump for Jan 6, and documents, and stuff.
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
Most of the Climate deals are corporate subsidies for things they were going to do anyhow... eventually.
As good as the student debt forgiveness is... all of those loans that are being forgiven are loans that should have been forgiven ages ago. There's zero fraud investigation on that. just a "oops. we let you get scammed for years." (sometimes even decades.). Not exactly a brilliant dipslay of ... governance.
Right now we don't even have support for ukraine. so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship that was one of his key sales pitches.
you do realize that prevailing rhetoric right now is "Don't protest Biden now.... let him win the election first!", right? which is why I'm being down voted when I call Gaza Genocide.
I don't think Biden can protect american democracy. I don't think he has that ability.
"so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship"
whose fault is that?
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/01/bidens-numbers-january-2024-update/
So, he's done nothing to actually protect american democracy. The argument being made by the OC is that he's protecting American democracy. Where's that?
your source is mostly about stuff that Biden has fuck all to do with (crime is state and local; Economics, fed and treasury;) and the stuff he does... he's not done all that much (immigration?) or has gone the wrong way (oil)
Both "sides" don't give a fuck about people or democracy, both the red and blue party support dictatorships around the world, genocide and unjust wars. If you vote red or blue you are giving your vote to corrupted criminal murderers with blood on their hands. If i don't support Stalin in WWII it does not mean that i'm supporting Hitler, the choice is yours! Not voting for red or blue does NOT mean voting for the other color.
The far left isn't voting because electoral politics are a distraction from actual revolutionary action. While y'all are too busy choosing the lesser evil that will eventually "compromise" with the worse evil because "we need a strong republican party" the far left is taking more direct approaches.
WHAT DEMOCRACY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? The one that enables your country to fund a genocide across the globe DESPITE the outrage of it's citizens and the... WHOLE WORLD?
How you can enable MORE genocide? People are finite, you either commit genocide, or you don't. Or you think with your tiny fucking libbrain that SMALL GENOCIDE is totally okay?
Yeah, sure, do not try to change anything, just deal with our shitty system because there's no other option. Jesus fucking Christ...