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Enlightened Centrism
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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Which one is that? Because moderates are outright refusing to compromise with leftists and progressives. Seems like they prefer fascists.
That's because those "moderates" are actually right-wingers masquerading as moderates. If somebody tells you "I support X, Y, and Z", but don't take any positions that support X, Y, or Z, then they are lying to you.
I think it's worse than that. I think moderates are lying to themselves and since so few people are calling them out for it they remain in blissful ignorance of the damage they're causing.
Left is in a pretty clear lead but you won't find me handing out fliers to spread the word. I'm just watching in paralyzed horror.
Maybe if you told moderates they need to start compromising with leftists and progressives a few might listen.
Based on the overwhelmingly negative response to the left being criticized I understand why many Centrists stay center. Going either direction just feels morally compromising. I'll still vote blue because I'm not insane but still, I'd never call myself Democrat.
Supporting unions feels morally compromising? Refusing to send weapons to Israel feels morally compromising? Raising minimum wage feels morally compromising?
Get real.
Supporting a president who is turning a blind eye to genocide feels morally compromising. Supporting Democrats, none of which who will even use the word genocide to call out Israel, feels morally compromising. Supporting "peaceful protestors" wearing anti-facist gear and smash/loot small businesses feels morally compromising. Supporting people who refuse to acknowledge body dysmorphia is a mental illness and instead want to feed into it in all forms feels morally compromising.
You're fucking delusional if you think your side is immune to critique. The left is 'better' but stop huffing your own shit fumes.
Are you equivocating this with a vote for Bernie or Warren in the primaries?
Furthermore, moderates like you got the candidate you wanted in the primaries and lots of progressives and leftists begrudgingly showed up to vote for him in the 2020 general. Biden hasn't compromised with them at all. If you want him to win the next election you'll need our help again. We've provided some ideas like "stop sending weapons to Israel" and "don't block strikes". Are you trying to tell me supporting either of those ideas feels morally compromising to you? And if not have you done anything to try to tell Biden to wake the fuck up unless he wants to lose to the far right?
You're acting like there's only two extreme choices when that doesn't reflect reality. Biden won the primaries. You got your centerist president. Now help us nudge him left and we'll help make sure he gets elected again.
Sir I wanted Bernie, never Biden. I want someone strong left leaning, even as a centrist, because the right is fucked beyond repair. Biden is too far right.
It might sound like mixed messaging but I like Healthcare for all, universal basic income, cheap medicine, free college, all those radical ideas. Just hate the "burn the city for racial awareness" bullshit.
And you support that by arguing with leftists and progressives? When was the last time you lectured a moderate? Have you ever told someone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries that was a selfish thing to do? Or do you only spend your time lecturing leftists and progressives?
Whatever your beliefs are your actions do not differentiate you from a moderate in any meaningful way.
Lol you seem so unused to the idea of being lectured by someone who shares most of your principles your only response is "why not other people?"
I argue with everyone who hold shitty beliefs and that doesn't exclude you even if you're mostly on my side. The tests I've taken call me a left leaning centrist so I guess that's what I am.
Feel free to check my comment history, the left and the right both take shots. Even centers for fence riding. You don't get a free pass for what you're called. Shit beliefs are shit beliefs and your world views define you.
I'm not unused to it at all. There's plenty of people around here larping as progressive and leftists while doing nothing but undermining those efforts. If you actually want to help then start telling moderates they can either compromise with progressives and leftists or lose to fascists. Lecturing me and trying to tell me I should vote for Biden despite his actions will get you nowhere. I'm voting 3rd party or write in.
Ok. Was it a shitty belief for moderates to think Biden was the best choice to make in the 2020 primaries?
Another excellent example of strawman.
Regardless that's the choice in front of every moderate. Either they can join us in telling Biden to vow to veto any attempts to block a strike in his next term and stop shipping weapons to Israel or they can lose to fascists. We compromised and helped get Biden elected in the 2020 general. If they want our help again it's time for the moderates to compromise.
Will he though? (stop supporting their war)
If you wanted to force Biden to stop supporting a war, you'd do it with the vote. He'd have to change his policies to better reflect the majority, or his supporters. But in this case, it's him or fuck.
Since there's only two choices, the non fuck followers aren't going to vote for fuck, so that only leaves Biden. I don't believe he has to change anything.
And yes, I believe it's totally acceptable and reasonable to not like either choice in this matter. In a system of only two choices, each choice can and often does have cons, as well as pros. To think one side is infallible would be unreasonable. I hate both parties, but for largely different reasons.
Not going to vote for fuck, but I don't like Biden either.
Also, what if a person likes workspace safety and collective bargaining, but dislikes watching shitty, lazy employees not get fired and hold up good positions protected by union reps and policies? So it is morally compromising to not like part of unions? What about the moral compromising of shitty employees being a drain on a company and all its employees (not just the top rich bastards)? What if I don't support that?
So you recognize Biden isn't compromising with the leftists and progressives he's depending on to get elected. Who will you blame if he loses in 2024? Will you blame moderates as the majority voting bloc for electing a trash candidate in the primaries? Will you blame Joe Biden for being a trash candidate? Or will you blame progressives and leftists for voting 3rd party or writing in?
Sorry, missed the primary. Yes, I'm truly super irritated with primary and the concept.
How the hell do both American parties back these two candidates? Should have done better imo.
I see where your head's at a little, but I will blame him mostly.
As the elected representative, it's his job to represent the voters, population, community, etc. and make decisions the represent those voters or their best interests. If he isn't being reelected, then he has failed to do that satisfactory enough to maintain their confidence.
If he doesn't get the fence/middle/republocrats, then there is something wrong, especially when he's up against a fuck.
Will I blame the voters? Some. The society should only elect people that best represent their values. Americans choices are only these two. If we elect a fuck, either the other choice was terrible, or the people are terrible, or both.
All I'm seeing is you trying real hard to straddle two different ways of treating voters. When moderates elect a garbage candidate in the primaries you're "super irritated". But you have nothing negative to say about moderate voters. No lectures. No wisdom. Nothing.
But when progressives and leftists start talking about the way they'll vote in the general here you are to impart your opinion on all of us.
If you're gonna spend time and energy lecturing progressives and leftists for refusing to vote for Biden in the general then you should be spending twice as much energy lecturing moderates for making a shitty choice in the primaries.
Ha, I think you misunderstood. I'm not lecturing progressives and leftists for refusing to vote for Biden. I don't care. Vote however you need.
I originally said something because the flawed strawman comments were berating disagreement over simplified into unionsupport, and wages.
lol. What a waste of time.
It is if you're only interested in supporting your own narrative.
I'm not here to prove anything to you and I don't really give a shit about your college level understanding of logical fallacies. I'm here for one reason and one reason only: To voice my disapproval with strike blocking, genocide supporting pro-corporate trash Joe Biden. Why? Because when he loses in 2024 people will clutch their chests and be like "Woe is me! How could this happen?? If only there was some way this could have been avoided?"
And that's when I'll gesture back at the thousands of conversations here where people said things like:
And the thousands and thousands of replies just like yours coming up with all sorts of reasons to disagree as if it were up for debate. You know what will be missing? Any moderate going "Yeah you know what, I think Trump is a bigger risk than what would happen if the rail strike had happened." Or "Clearly beating Trump is the priority so Biden should stop supplying arms to Israel."
The fact that this is happening nowhere means moderates would rather lose to fascists than compromise with leftists and progressives. And as the majority voting bloc for Democrats they will have the lions share of the responsibility when Biden loses.
I don't care if you agree with my narrative. All I'm here to do is make sure nobody can claim we didn't put this message on blast. Moderates will have no excuse.