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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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It's easy to make a list of all communists countries that turned fascists and massacred people. You don't do that with capitalists because there are simply too many, everywhere, in about all of history.
It's almost like the main problem with both authoritarian communism and authoritarian capitalism might be the authoritarianism.
It would be 100% with capitalist as well.
As DarthBueller@lemmy.world less succinctly put it. Capitalism is barely a few hundred years old. It's barely existed a fraction of human history. It's barely older than many of the original socialist ideals. Let alone all of history. Markets and currency predate capitalism and socialism by millennia. And neither has claim to them. Despite both making use of them.
That said fuck leninists. Actual communists are pretty chill though. But leninists and capitalists are a threat to everyone. Including themselves.
That's not entirely true. The Hudsons Bay Company, for instance, was on the stock market in the 1600s. The London Royal Exchange was built in the 1500s.
Yes but they were in Mercantilism systems not Capitalist ones.
It's extremely sad how purposefully western education has failed so many people on this front. You are 100% correct.
It really shouldn't be that complex. Adam Smith, considered the Father of Capitalism, published The Wealth of Nations in 1776. So even if you argue that someone in power got a copy an implemented immediately; blaming Capitalism for things that happened before them is as backwards as blaming failures in Collectivism that happened before 1867 (Publishing of Das Kapital by Marx).
I agree with you though, we definitely need better economic education in the US and likely the rest of the West too.
Definitely in the US. I find interactions with people outside the United States tend to go a little better and they have a better understanding. But sometimes still lack in many areas. In the US, however, we tend to be pretty consistently misinformed.
Just as a true socialist country has never existed, a true capitalist country has never existed. Economies are always mixed.
Socialists are not fans of, and often are opposed to the state. That's the reason that a socialist state hasn't and will never realistically exist. It's an oxymoron. It's got nothing to do with mixed economies. That's just the reason exploitative authoritarians like capitalist indoctrinate people with to further their own goals.
Just as a true socialist country has never existed, a true capitalist country has never existed. Economies are always mixed.
If only we could imagine what a truly capitalist country would look like in the future! Like, I don't know, we call this genra something like cyberpunk?
But that also exists for my side, yk, Orwellian. Brave New World too.
Yes. But you know of a capitalist utopia? Because there are many communist utopia.
Usually media about utopias aren't very interesting. But yeah many people have imagined capitalist utopias.
On the contrary. Star trek is a well known utopia, and it's definitely not capitalist. You didn't mentioned a capitalist utopia still.
Much of Robert Heinlein's "Future History" series fits the bill
I can't think of any fictional utopias that are entirely utopian. I didn't know Star Trek was utopian. I can think of a lot of medias that condemn different forms of central planning. I can't think of any forms of media that condemn Georgism, or anarcho-socialism- does that mean those ideologies are good?
That may have something to do with the fact that there is no such thing as "true capitalism." Capitalism is as "true" as it can possibly get.
There can be no "mixture" between socialism and capitalism. If the means of production isn't controlled by workers it means there is no socialism to "mix" in the first place.
Liberal countries are the only ones capable of providing a safe and prosperous society for all. It doesn't mean all liberal societies are like that, but liberalism is the only one that can create and maintain one.
Lmao
What countries do you think are best for human rights? And how many of them are fascist and how many are liberal?
None of either.
Do you often struggle understanding written language?
Again with the self L
What country is "None"?
ESL peeps should probably not try to beef about people refusing to engage with their nonsense
Do you want me to ask those two questions again holding your hand and explaining the words I use as they come, or will you admit that the only countries with decent human rights situations are liberal?
Look, bud, I understand you're upset that I didn't engage in your amateurish rhetorical trap, but it's not my fault you don't understand that the question was answered.
None of the questions were answered. Take your time with it. I know these things are difficult for people like you, I'm patient.
Hit me up if you need help with individual words alright bud?
Tiresome, obstinate, and uninspired.
Be "useful" and go demolish a homeless camp or something.
So you admit that liberalism is a requirement for equal rights.
As I thought.
And yeah I'll demolish the camp after we house all our homeless peop... Oh wait we already did, fantastic, bless liberal societies
🤡
All but those who are excluded from it. Who are the slaves in your countries? How many societies had to be destroyed for your country to become what it is now?
Speaking for my country, uh idk, don't think anyone here's a slave. Occasionally you hear of some sketchy work practices, usually involving underpaid immigrant workers at restaurants but those issues are quickly dealt with.
None as far as I'm aware. We were first exploited by the swedish empire and later by the rus*ian empire. After which we were destroyed twice by soviets and barely scraped against the nazis. So I'd say we were on the colonized side of history rather than the exploiting colonial one, the swedish speaking population here still owns way more than the rest of the country - relatively speaking - as often is the case in exploited countries as old money never really dies out even if the underlying society progresses past it. Of course I'm glossing over a ton of historical events here and straightening out corners, but I'm happy with the answer.
You're still in the honeymoon phase with capitalism. You'll see in a few decades.
Czechoslovakia was leaning capitalist and prosperous before the Nazis and then Soviets invaded, both leaning much more leftist, and surpressing the people.
So capitalism has existed since "about all of history"? About as dumb a take as folks insisting that the Israel/Palestine conflict has been going on for thousands of years.