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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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Fucking hell. IDF is doing an indefensible acts speedrun, I guess.
Hamas was the target, they surrounded their leaders with innocent people. It's a common tactic with terrorists.
And? If there's a hostage situation, the answer is not to blow up the entire building, hostages and all.
Even Russians don't blow the entire building, they just gas it.
Nah. We watched the Russians blow up the buildings in realtime without even worrying if military personnel were housed there. IIRC that was the theater bombing one that I am thinking of.
Yeah, Israel are straight-up taking plays from the Soviet handbook here. Indiscriminate murder of civilians is okay if you get one bad dude. They’ve already dehumanised Palestinians beyond belief, it’s no wonder that they view murder of innocent Palestinians as being completely different to murder of innocent Israelis.
And that's the most disturbing part of it.
They blew up that whole theater in Mariupol full of sheltering women and children, early on in the war. That must have killed hundreds.
That wasn't a hostage situation that was plain ethnic cleansing. Russia has thrown pretty much the whole of the male population in the occupied territories in the meat grinder by now, btw.
What OP is referring to is the Dubrovka crisis where Chechens took tons of hostages in a theatre and Russia pumped the whole thing full of gas, probably some fast-acting opioid. Which isn't that bad of a way to diffuse a situation they just failed to inform EMTs on what they've used or at least how patients should be treated which meant a lot more respiratory failures than was necessary. Still a better outcome than storming the thing and the Chechens blowing everything up.
A russian classic, really:
I agree, but militaries will absolutely strike any high value target no matter the civilian cost. That's the human cost of war and why we have rules of war. Hamas doesn't follow those rules and the IDF has labeled them illegal combatants. Thus, in a legal sense, these strikes are being carried out. It absolutely is sickening but this is what Hamas wants to happen.
It's not really relevant what Hamas wants to happen. The civilians don't want to be murdered.
These are war crimes no matter what either of the beligerants think/want.
Most international law experts are already coming down on the side of civilian starvation being war crimes. History is going to judge this a lot more harshly than the talking heads of US/Israeli news.
I don't think anyone is saying they do.
Is bombing a hospital ok in the rules of war? Because they bombed the only cancer hospital in Gaza yesterday.
Ask Assad. He once bombed 4 hospitals in a day, and IRC at one point doctors in Syria stopped telling the UN where their hospitals were located, because their warnings to not target these hospitals was being used by the Syrians as targetting suggestions.
Shit, is he bombing Palestine too? Otherwise he’s irrelevant to this conversation
Sure, we don't want no context here. That only makes this less black and white, and nobody ain't got time for that.
Hamas bombed a hospital by mistake. War zones are dangerous.
You're referring to the PIJ, not Hamas. And even the PIJ being responsible is very much in question at the moment as more information is obtained on those events. See the New York Times analysis from the other day.
No idea why you're downvoted, this is objectively true. One may consider it disgusting or morally indefensible, but a) unless Israel is lying about the presence of legitimate targets in the area it is not illegal b) using civilians as human shields is a staple Hamas tactic.
The truth is very hard to swallow. I served in Iraq and Afghanistan, I've witnessed this stupidity first hand. Terrorists are cowards who hide behind civilians. They want civilians to die because for every civilian killed they gain more bodies to their cause.
So so very close to piecing together why bombing a refugee camp even if there are terrorists or supporting infrastructure located there is a terrible idea.
I truly don't know how you can recognize that Hamas wants civilians to die because it will strengthen their numbers, and still excuse the bombing of civilians. Perhaps you're just trolling?
This explains so much about all the shit you're smearing all over Lemmy. You just miss murdering Arabs.
I am an engineer, I built schools, hospitals, and other public services. Few military personnel serve in combat roles.
Oh, so you're just keeping your role of whitewashing a brutal occupation going then.
I don't support either side of the conflict.
Yet you're only justifying one side's actions.
I don't support either side. Both sides have made no effort towards diplomacy. Both sides have focused on violence.
Sure, if your knowledge of the conflict only goes back a month.
Lol and you get downvoted because you're not meeting the bloodthirsty soldier narrative that Lemmy's unemployed communists love to parrot.
You're probably correct. I'm rather antiwar and pro diplomacy.
Yes, I've heard the US operation in Iraq was very successful in defeating the Taliban. Oh wait...
The Taliban are in Afghanistan and the U.S. mission was never against them, ever. Perhaps you should look up basic information first.
Oh, was Iraq justified with Saddam's "weapon's of mass destruction" that didn't exist? Sorry, got my lies mixed up.
Iraq was GWB wanting to make his daddy proud. On the ground things were fine until his dumbass fired the entire Iraqi military. That's when it all went to hell. It did lead to a United Iraq, but it took 12 years.
I can't help but parrot exactly what @V17 said. People just don't want to hear the realities of war.
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Answer? They're at war
As we all know, legal experts prefer to say “all’s fair in love and war” than to follow Geneva conventions.
Dude, Wolf Blitzer gets it. Don't let yourself seem like the less reasonable party when Wolf Blitzer's involved.
I don't think the Israeli government cares anymore than the Iranian government cared about killing its people. Any government based on religion is going to be intolerant of nonconforming behaviors and other religious beliefs. Separation of church and state is a requirement for successful societies.
This is not a religious conflict. It's imperialist and settler colonial. This headass take needs to stop.
This is a religious war.
Then why hasn’t Israel declared war on all other Muslim countries?
Because they haven't attacked Israel. Seems pretty simple.
If I'm a Palestinian, and I am / convert to Judaism. Can I join Israel? (no)
Also, how many Israelis have a Jewish religion? (they are the minority, it's mostly non believers)
How does this fit in it being religious instead of ethnic you think?
Iran killing it's own people or the Israelis? For sure on religion being a blight to the progress of humanity. I'd say I'm still perplexed, but honestly just meh. I've read enough weird shit today.
Ive witnessed too much of it in the last 20 years. I'm tried of seeing innocent people killed to defend a religion.
I feel like we're already at the bottom of the barrel when serial teleprompter reader Wolf Blitzer gets it.
It's unreal right? It's like some body snatcher type shit and it's everyday. Tomorrow some even more baffling combination of sorrows will somehow make this look tame. We are living the curse of "may you live in interesting times."