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war, war never rules
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2026
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I was asking because I don't know of any. I recognize I don't know everything and would be happy to learn more history.
I'm not saying genocides don't happen. Of the ones I can think of, the victims were not able to form militaries to fight back. Genocide requires a power imbalance.
Are organized rebellions (like the Hutu in 1959) military? I would argue they are not because they were not the state. I think that's an important distinction. Being the state sanctioned group which remains at least somewhat assembled during peace carries special weight.
Maybe you could say Hamas et al cause wars in response to genocide but again I don't think they strictly fall into a state military.
I don't even need history.
Ukraine is literally defending itself right now against a state that is committing genocide on its occupied territory.
But, looking at history, there are wars specifically started to cause state-sponsored genocide in another state. And I'll avoid anything Israeli.
There's the first Congo war, which specially killed everyone in now-Congo to make room for the Hutu Rwandans. They started killing Tutsi in their own country, but specifically attacked another state to keep the genocide going.
There's the Bosnian Genocide, though that wasn't technically started to do genocide, it was kept going in order to commit more genocide.
Indonesia invaded East Timor for the express purpose of "pacifying" the sovereign state, killing a third of all people there.
After Bangladesh gained independence from Pakistan, Pakistan launched a war specifically to get rid of the Bengal people who initiated their independence.
And of course, you already mentioned WW2, a war started with the explicit goal of creating more living room for the German people.
There are significantly more genocides where there's a larger gap between conquering an area and genociding the original inhabitants though. If you annex a place first, and then genocide it, it falls outside your specific examples. Granted, I'm skirting those a bit, since Russia sees the Donbass as Russian, and them not being at war with Ukraine...
I think it's also important to note here that the previous poster is creating an unrealistic standard by insisting that genocide even be in the picture.
Any war of aggression is a bad thing that people should be able to defend themselves from. And that means having a military. And defending other people from wars of aggression means having a military.
We don't have to be talking about genocide. Whether or not Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine (they are certainly engaged in ethnic cleansing, regardless of any other definitions) is actually irrelevant. The people of Ukraine should not have their future determined by the fact that Putin has men with guns and the willingness to use them. It's as simple as that. And as long as people like Putin exist in the world, having a military will often be the only way to prevent stuff like that from happening.
I didn't bring up genocide, the person you are respond to did.
I am genuinely curious to know who is framing the war between Russia and Ukraine as genocide. My understanding is Ukraine views it as imperialism and Russia views it as liberating people who are Russian from Ukrainian rule (if we are talking about Crimea/Donbas) or stopping Ukraine from doing some sort of evil, I'm not totally clear on this one.
First Congo War is debatable but before I expand on that I want to make sure you understand the war happened after the 1994 genocide? You are referring to a second genocide? (Not debating if the mass killing during the war counted as genocide, just wanting to make sure we are talking about the same thing).
Bosnia genocide I don't think I need to reply further because I agree it wasn't started to do genocide.
East Timor: disagree. There was a civil war because of how the colonial power left (one could say by design) and Indonesia saw it as an annexation opportunity. It wasn't a war between two established states in response to intention to commit genocide.
Bangladesh: I don't think I know who the military who opposed Pakistan was?
WWII: My point has been no allied power cared about liebestraum until it threatened their own borders/colonial interests. If we go back to the comment I was replying to, the person was talking about one country defending itself against another because they thought they didn't deserve to live because of their world view, sexuality or colour of skin. I suppose if you stretch world view into believing they should be allowed to live their life in peace then sure that applies. I can't argue with that one.
You've since added the requirements that the invader needed to state their genocidal intention beforehand, and that both countries need to be recognized states that have some as-yet unstated time period of independence.
Since you're constantly shifting the goalposts, it's impossible to meet your requirements..
No I haven't?
It's 100% possible I misunderstood the person I was replying to, I have no problem acknowledging that. I took their comment to be a question of if it's morally correct to defend a border with a military if the invading military is doing so because they think you "don’t deserve to live because of your world view, your sexuality, your skin colour?"
If you interpret that differently then we are discussing different things and not arguing the same point.
I do think that an army/militia and and military are different. I think a military needs a state, by definition. I think the fact that the military enforces the will of a state is what makes it evil and what makes it so easy to present war as just and self defense while hiding the motive of imperialism.
For added clarity this is what I think is going on in our exchange:
My original statement was that I am not aware of a war that was started between two militaries that was one military defending it's people from another who wanted to wipe them out for their viewpoints, sexuality, colour of their skin.
You replied saying wars result in genocide. I don't disagree with that. That's still not what the comment you were replying to (this one for clarity) was saying.
It is not reasonable for you to tell me what I meant the same way it's not reasonable for me to tell you what you mean by yours.
You are expecting me to discuss your point, which is that wars result in genocide, whereas I am continuing to discuss the idea that wars start as a response to genocide.
I don't understand why you would come into a conversation, reply telling me I am wrong and demand I defend a point I wasn't trying to make.
I made the mistake of thinking you were raising new points to support the idea that I was wrong about what I was discussing, but I was clearly wrong about that.
Well that seems an arbitrary distinction.
It is an arbitrary distinction. I'm explaining my viewpoint.
Oh, well that's fair.