5th grade seems like an appropriate time to start educating students about this as part of their health curriculum. That's the grade when they gave us the puberty talk in my old school district.

Some early bloomers absolutely start puberty during or before 5th grade.

My sister "knew" she was trans when she was around 8. Granted, we didn't have the terminology back then so...

That being said, how is it a "mature" topic? We teach children the concept of "this boy" and "this girl" much earlier than that. And I'm confused how the concept has anything to do with puberty either.

Said it in another thread on this:

I'm trans.

I figured it out, literally in the fifth grade.

It's not too early. It's not too hard. It's not bad for them. Not having proper knowledge of things has made my life harder and worse than it had to be. If you want to help kids, teaching them things is how you do that. Hiding things from them hurts trans kids, and it makes it easier for predators to predate on kids. If you want to hurt kids, that's on you, but say it with your fuckin' chest. Don't hide behind this line that you know is false.

Oh, and re nutjob teachers:

We teach evolution in school, because the data backs it. We don't teach creationism in school, because the data doesn't back it. It's not that hard, this argument is pointless chaff.

"I'm privileged enough to have been born cis and straight in this cis-heteronormative world where my gender and sexuality have been openly discussed and supported (if not enforced) since birth, but when those who are trans and/or gay want to talk openly about how they've also known their gender and orientation for just as long, it's suddenly a sensitive topic I don't think children are ready to hear"

And you know what that says about you?
That you're not as tolerant or progressive as you like to tell yourself you are.

I mean I remember taking biology that went over reproductive anatomy in 6th grade. I feel like gender identity isn't any more mature of a topic than penises and vaginas. Maybe my school was an outlier though? Either way I think letting kids who might not feel comfortable with their gender know that their feelings are valid is important enough to warrant mentioning in elementary school

It's clearly a children's book. Do you really think it's presented in any sort of inappropriate way?

You can easily talk to preschoolers about this stuff. A little bit of information about the world they live in doesn't hurt them in the least.

Except gender is a much less mature topic than sex and sexual attraction, something that should be taught around 5th grade if not earlier, before children have confusing feelings and their bodies undergo confusing changes. The media atmosphere already leaves impressions about sexuality in the minds of children much earlier, so there isn't much harm for parents or teachers to discuss the topic in a much healthier way.

Gender on the other hand is something impressed upon and experienced by even toddlers, so the topic of gender isn't all that mature, it's only treated as mature because of the social taboos regarding trans individuals.

People are gender non conforming from a young age, not after puberty. Making them wait to learn about it just means they will be confused about it for longer, whether it's themselves or their peers

My daughters went through puberty at 9 and almost 9. That's 4th grade. The older one knew she was gay by 11. I had sex ed starting in 5th grade back in the fucking 80's.

In response to the edit: I notice you pivoted from it being a function of "maturity" and placement relative to puberty, to now wrapping it in concern of the gov't - some how - surpressing "lgbtq rights" by teaching about their existence, which is a contradictory stance, but w.e.

Look, my sister's trans, my mothers are gay, and I'm the straight dood in my family. I'm not in a hivemind, and my experience watching them wade through life informs my thoughts. Your appeal that people who disagree with you are in one is troubling, to say the least.

Heck, you didn't even address a few anecdotes of people being precisely in the age range you had issue with, and instead chose to take a different tact -- instead doubling down you are correct.

Yeah why tell kids about puberty until they're done with it?

I think it's common to conflate Gender Dysphoria and sexual maturity since hormone therapy is a common treatment. Here is a study from the nlm about the age transgender adults first experienced symptoms of GD. It's only one study so maybe do some additional reading.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8766261/#:~:text=Gender%20dysphoria%20history%3A%20Of%20the,among%20their%20earliest%20childhood%20memories.

Yeah, you think they should wait until the trauma really sets in? That's the right time?

What does puberty have to do with the topic? Should we wait til puberty to teach people that the flu or covid exists? It's a topic connected to many deaths, so surely it's a mature topic. Otoh, gender is a pretty basic topic parents force onto children, often before the child is even born. Why do we allow such inappropriate behavior towards literal children?

Well, some kids in 5th grade will start to wonder about themselves so it sounds pretty age appropriate to be taught differences exists.

I was in catholic school and started sex ed (well what counts as sex ed for a catholic school) in 5th grade. They told us about some of the most extreme cases of what some.of the worst sti's do and we watched video of an actual birth so if we could handle hearing and seeing those things in a catholic school, I think 5th graders can handle learning about how people express their genders.

At what age should people be given the mental framework to understand their own gender?

I think my teachers did a really good job discussing this when I was a kid. In fact, I think they did such a good job, that it should be the standard until we have a more agreed-upon understanding of gender fluidity. I mean, I'm in favor of teaching it but I understand not everyone is and it's maybe not fully understood yet.

Way back in 2005, my 5th grade health teacher essentially said this:

"Usually men want to have sex with women and women want to have sex with men. But sometimes, men want to have sex with men, women want to have sex with women, and not everyone feels like they were born in the right body. Sometimes, men feel like women and women feel like men.

You guys have probably heard a lot about gay marriage and homosexuality in the news. This is what they are talking about and adults don't always agree on some of this. A lot of people think it's okay to be gay or to change your gender. Other people think it goes against their religion. I'm here if you have any questions, but you can also ask your parents what they think about it."

This was after he sent home a permission slip to talk about sex ed. in general. Every parent signed except for one Muslim girl in the class. She went and watched movies in the room next door because her parents preferred to talk to her about it in their own way.

I thought it was a pretty uncontroversial way to handle this whole thing. We could probably go a bit farther today, but this was pretty progressive for 2005.

I remember this so vividly because I could feel that there was tension around the topic and I could tell that my teacher was respectfully trying to share "both sides" of an issue. I use quotes around both sides because I honestly think homophobia and transphobia are ridiculous views to hold, but I know people have them, unfortunately. And I do think people have some right to dictate what education their child receives even if they're teaching them abhorrent things.

I remember thinking it was interesting that adults didn't agree on this. There was a legal battle over gay marriage licenses in New York City going on in 2005 and it was all over the local news, so I remember it being a big deal.

what about the flip side where a nut job teacher decides 2 genders is part of the lesson plan?

They already do that in every school I know of. These idiot say they are indoctrinating kids to be homosexual or trans ( tbf not sure if there is a real difference besides body look) yet all “health” classes focus on the male and female reproductive system. I remember parents getting In an uproar over high schoolers being given condoms in the class.

Yea some children are rebellious against the norma, however I truly believe that if the parents want to control the schooling so bad, then their asses should quit their jobs and home school. Otherwise they should all just STFU.

Edit: Never been so dogpiled about a comment before.

Let's keep going. Hope you disabled notifications.

In MY OPINION I just think 5th grade is too early. According to the hive mind I am wrong.

Just cuz you had a bad take doesn't mean we're a fucking hive mind. I didnt even bother reading others' replies before giving you my piece. But way to be condescending to cushion your ego!

I also get nervous having government agencies (schools) involved with anything lgbtq+. We all know the government and our courts always side with the compassionate and accepting side. And would never suppress people's rights. /S

So you support government censorship as a tool to protect against... government censorship?

Some of you are out of control, I never thought that comment would cause people to assume my gender, orientation, political affiliation, hell one of you assumed my race (wtf)

Still haven't read what others had to say, it's probably quite disgusting yes

Look you had a bad take and now you're lashing out to protect your ego. its fine