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this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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Never said it was, but I know multiple people who are non-Muslims in Muslim nations. The stories I hear from my friends in Egypt and Bangladesh are horrendous.
There's monsters in every religion, but prevalence varies. In Indonesia, they still actually flog people for being gay sometimes... And if I said what I really thought about Muhammad in Riyadh and I was a Saudi citizen, I would die for it.
Oh, and no, I guarantee it's all religious outrage, with the book burning. Stop trying to pretend it's different. I get that you live in the West and want happy feelings about your religion, but your lived experience pales to that of my atheist and Christian friends who have to live in the Arab and Muslim world.
Prevalence varies BASED ON socioeconomic factors.
I’ve lived in poor Christian countries that still jail people for homosexuality. Jamaica and Uganda lynch suspected gays, but Argentina does not. Wealth and education are the big difference between the two, not religion. And religious fundamentalism is on the rise all over in the developing world, if you ignore that and try to blame a specific religion in general then you’re missing the massive death tolls in places like Central African Republic or the genocides in Myanmar.
Saudi Arabia is a total dictatorship and a tiny one at that (Chinas has 2x as many Muslims as Saudi) ; say what you want in a Muslim-majority Democracy like Albania or Senegal and nobody will stop you.
There were some highly publicized incidents in Bangladesh but they were loudly and widely condemned by the public and the religious leadership, then the government caught and punished those who did it and made examples of them. Violence is a human behavior, but you can’t blame a religion for it when the religion explicitly forbids such behavior AND all the major religious leaders spoke out against it.
I’ve traveled extensively throughout the Muslim world, you’re just going off of hearsay and anecdotes, and you’re being condescending to boot. If you’re going to stubbornly ignore facts then I can’t help you.
No, I'm sorry, but both rich and poor Muslim nations show extremely high rates of fundamentalist extremism. Oh, it's higher in the poor ones. But it's present in the UAE, SA, Kuwait, etc. I mean, Saudi citizens are the ones who were mainly finding Al Qaeda, remember.
If you actually have traveled throughout the Muslim world, you've done it as a Muslim. I'm glad you haven't been exposed to the kind of discrimination the people in my life face on a daily basis.
That’s factually inaccurate. Saudi Arabia is a rich monarchy but the income of the non-royalty is somewhat poor. And they’re a DICTATORSHIP, and hardly someone you can use to generalize the literal 2 Billion Muslims when the majority of them live in democracies. There’s a reason the Muslim world condemns Saudi Arabia; even the Taliban allowed women to drive and Saudi didn’t.
You’re overgeneralizing your “people.” There’s atheists all over the Muslim world and they don’t hide it. Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Albania, Bosnia, the list goes on. Nobody cares what you believe, honestly.
Convenient how the high rate of dictatorships in the Muslim world lets you ignore their human rights abuses
Who said we should? That’s a total strawman, Muslims have been doing more to condemn and stop these regimes and their abuses than you ever have. How much Arabic, Urdu, Swahili, Malay, Bangla, Albanian, and Bahasa media have you been following? Clearly none because you falsely assume we’re all condoning violence and extremism for some reason.
Blatantly dishonest strawman. I said there was a high rate of fundamentalist extremism in the Muslim world. You are the one trying to claim I said that all Muslims are terrorist monsters or something like that. Obviously, that's not true. Shit, I have a good friend who is a Muslim immigrant from Saudi Arabia.
....but my ability to judge people on their own merits doesn't make me ignore the fact that even the nicest Muslim countries are shockingly conservative in terms of public enforcement of morality codes, or the extremely high rate of fundamentalist extremism.
I was replying to someone else in the above thread and then you replied, I’m sorry if I confused you with the other person.
You’re still wrong to claim that extremism is “an extremely high rate.” ISIS had 10,000 people, and were defeated by tens of millions of Muslim soldiers who crushed them as part of a joint effort with every Muslim-majority country in support. That should never define 2,000,000,000 Muslims.
Fundamentalism among Muslims isn’t even high compared to other religions; you have active genocide in progress by Buddhist extremists in Myanmar and Christian fundamentalists in Africa committing pogroms and lynching suspected gays. All religions have extremists and that’s a constant of humanity and can be solved with education.
I didn't cite ISIS. But if you claim Muslims are crushing fundamentalism, how are the Wahhabis doing
They’re mocked and ostracized in most Muslim countries. They were never that popular to begin with (they had a brief spike due to outrage against the Iraq war) and mainly were inflated by Saudi money, but now that Saudi is going broke they lost a lot of their funding and Muslim governments pressured them to stop doing that. Watch any Arabic news channel and they get picked on by interviewers.
Fundamentalism is a problem worldwide; but surveys show Muslims are less likely than Christians or Jews to support violence against civilians.
I'm sorry, you're just in denial of reality
I’m sorry, how many Muslim countries have you been to and experienced? How many Muslims do you follow on social media, and in how many languages? How many sermons have you attended and how many halaqas?
Just because my facts don’t match your bigoted stereotypes doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Who’s really in denial of reality here?
You're a Muslim. I'm not. We have different perspectives.
I’m not Jewish either but it doesn’t mean I can spout such hateful claims, or argue with actual people in the religion that they support violence and oppression. You’re completely missing the point; I’m trying to correct you from your hurtful overgeneralizing prejudices and you’re pretending this is a matter of perspective.
I give up. I’ll do what the Quran says when ignorant people try to attack you, and say “Peace.”
I haven't attacked you at all. You've denied basic reality about the prevalence of fundamentalism in the Muslim world. Shit, you tried to say that the only reason that there's protests about a Quran burning is because of the fucking war in Iraq. Ridiculous.
Read again what I said more carefully next time. That’s not what I said and you’re strawmanning me.
Then if you didn't disagree with me that there's a high prevalence of fundamentalism in the Islamic world and that non Muslims face rampant discrimination in Muslim countries, I'm not sure what your point even was.