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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Grail@multiverse.soulism.net to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world

A few days ago I made a post to gauge this community's opinion on whether it should allow nice comics by bigoted artists. I think we have a consensus.

The majority of comments were very in support of banning comics by artists like Stonetoss and Jago. I heard from queer people who said they'd feel safer if the rules were changed. A lot of people were concerned about this community becoming a "Nazi bar", the comment expressing that feeling got a LOT of upvotes.

The people against the change had two main arguments: anti-censorship, and personal responsibility. A few people equated active moderation practices with book burning. Nearly all of these "against" comments were downvoted or ratiod, and tended to have a lot of arguments underneath them, while the "pro" comments went uncontested.

On the internet, 10% of people will disagree with just about anything. With that in mind, I think we've reached a consensus. The community wants a rule change so that users can't post inoffensive comics by bigoted artists.

That means no more Jago comics. I see a lot of people in the comments under the Jago posts, getting angry and saying they want this rule change. People aren't happy with the user who's posting all the Jago comics.

Mods, this is what we want. Please change the rules and get Jago's comics outta here.

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[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 108 points 1 day ago

The argument of censorship is bullshit. If a comic is made to discriminate, it is basic decency to get rid of it. If an author makes themselves known by being discriminatory, no platform that cares about user safety and having a non-toxic community needs to get rid of them. It's as simple as that.

When you refuse that kind of "censorship", you are only making it clear that you like making this place unsafe for the people being attacked. Which makes you a piece of shit in my book.

So yeah, let's just ban these things that have no reason to exist, let alone on lemmy.

[-] U7826391786239@piefed.zip 43 points 1 day ago

let them whine and cry about being "censored," canceled, banned, etc. everyone is free to say whatever they want, everyone is also free to take what someone says and throw it out the window.

the consistent widespread tolerance of intolerance is a huge reason the world is on fire right now

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago

It is really sad that now, when someone mentions "freedom of speech" I automatically see it as a red flag, despite freedom of speech being a good thing. Nazis really mess up everything.

[-] bizarroland@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Freedom of Speech only means that the government cannot censor you.

It has nothing to do with what businesses, individuals, groups, or anyone else does.

When the United States runs a social media, then they can argue that all they want there.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

The only caution with that is, private companies have a LOT of power and control right now. Easy to argue they shouldn’t, of course.

An example might be Visa enforcing “content guidelines” on any paid content on Steam providing NSFW games. Like, say, any game that acknowledges gay people exist. Payment processors and similar companies have claimed that’s a freedom of speech stance.

But yes, we can definitely keep it simple in forum communities constantly under human enforcement.

[-] leftascenter@jlai.lu 5 points 23 hours ago

That is just the US legal definition and it is very flawed.

Freedom of speech, more broadly, is the ability to express an opinion without fear of retaliation. This implies constraints on social organizations of all sizes.

Freedom of speech should also be compatible with the paradox of intolerance (unless intolerance is chosen to be socially accepted), which implies censorship at many levels.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agree, and It's all because of the distorted form of freedom of speech they have in USA, we generally don't have that problem in European democracies.
For instance FOX News is simply illegal by European standards, because they lie and distort reality.

[-] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

In online spaces there also seems to be this wierd thinking of "if it isn't illegal you have to accept it".

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Yes, which is really stupid, some people seem to think that freedom of expression means that sites have to allow their stupidity. Which is far from the case.

[-] leftascenter@jlai.lu 4 points 23 hours ago

France unfortunately has billionaire-backed C-News which is the same flavor as Fox-news.

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[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

In Europe it is still there, far right extremists love to complain about cancel culture, about being censored, etc.

But yeah, they generally prefer to sue for defamation when someone criticises them

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 14 hours ago

they know they are wrong, so they become defensive and tries to gaslight, its pretty much alt right tactic 101.

[-] U7826391786239@piefed.zip 10 points 1 day ago

i look at it as "yea, you can put up your nazi flag. but if you put it on my property, it's going in the firepit and getting torched"

[-] BeardededSquidward 5 points 23 hours ago

They have plenty of spaces of their own to post and like the content we don't want here. They feel a need to spread it though, to harm others because at the basis of it all, that's what they want to do whether they realize it or not.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago

I don't really care either way as I just browse this place casually (not that I support bigotry), but I can't believe how many community outrage posts like this that this community has received in the past week or two. You'd think we were in a community dedicated to much more serious topics not one dedicated to 'Sunday comics.'

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

Not caring is supporting bigotry.

"I don't support nazis, I just don't care if they conquer the world" is not really a good sentence to say.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 day ago

Not caring is supporting bigotry.

No, it's just not involving myself in internet drama.

"I don't support nazis, I just don't care if they conquer the world" is not really a good sentence to say.

You might have a point if we were actually talking about Nazis or someone like Trump and his ilk, but no were talking about some person with little influence who creates comics and posts them to this little community. I'm assuming this is about the guy who has all the thirsty looking comics with women in their underwear that someone claimed didn't support LGBT but didn't elaborate further? Forgive me for not joining in the tribalism and drawing my line in the sand over this egregious act.

The fact that you have to immediately rely on exaggerated appeals to emotion in order to even make your point should be a sign that you're going a little overboard.

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

So for you, discrimination and fascism should only be fought against when on a gigantic scale? As long as it's not the president of a country, you don't care?

"My neighbour is insulting black people in the street but you know, it's just a little racial slur a few times per day, it's not like it's actual Hitler living next to me, so I don't care"

How does that kind of logic even make sense?

I don't know why there are so many enlightened centrists on lemmy lately but it's really gross.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

Can you actually point to the discrimination and fascism being posted here? You keep having to rely on hypotheticals and unrelated situations as your argument and have yet to make a single reference to the actual situation occurring here, all while acting like we're somehow pro-Nazi or pro-slavery if we don't automatically conform to your viewpoint.

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

https://lemmy.world/post/45557825

Here's an example.

https://lemmy.world/post/45513297

Here's another.

This user in particular is one of the main issues of this community, most of their posts are like that.

But I know that you're just asking for an example to try to attack it, and there's not really any point, because if you don't see the problem from that link, a conversation cannot do enough.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 3 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

I know that you're just asking for an example to try to attack it, and there's not really any point

Oh, you know that do you? There's no point in devoting a single word in any of your dozen+ comments here to explain a position that you apparently feel so strongly about, while calling others "Nazis" for not automatically siding with you and your moral righteousness

if you don't see the problem from that link, a conversation cannot do enough.

Apparently you don't see the problem either since you can't seem to articulate it even once. You seem entirely reliant on logical fallacies, Nazis, and fascism to manipulate others into falling in line with whatever feeling you happen to be feeling about something. This is the same toxic bullshit that gave us things like the Satanic panic and the drug war and it's incredibly gross.

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 5 points 23 hours ago

So I have to spell out for you that showing people fighting sexism as people who do not know what they want and just complain about everything, or that showing a woman as a weird primitive monkey as soon as she doesn't talk nicely and politely, is a problem?

You're just proving my point exactly, continue sealioning as much as you want

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Oh you're fighting sexism? So why have all your analogies been about Nazis, racism, bigotry, and fascism up until this point? This is literally the first time you've mentioned it after commenting here all day.

Frankly, it seems like you don't know what you're angry about, just that you're angry and everyone else better fall in line or face your wrath. You saw something you don't like, overreacted on some moral crusade, and now want to retroactively apply some justification to legitimize it.

Remember this all began with me saying I didnt really care either way what happens to users like him, and you telling me that I was "supporting bigotry" and implied I'm a nazi supporter? Now that I finally dragged an actual statement out of you, it turns out it's really just about some horny dude depicting too much of the female body in his drawings. That's what you've been comparing to the genocide of millions of people and hundreds of years of enslavement of another people all day. 🙄

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

Okay, I can't believe I have to even explain that.

Misogyny is about discriminating against women. Racism is about discriminating based on "race". Xenophobia is about discriminating based on nationality/origin.

All of those are forms of discrimination. They're all bigotry. And they're all related in modern times to fascism, yes. And if you don't agree, then you're obviously bullshitting because there is no way you would have missed how discrimination has evolved over the past decades, with people that would have used the same rhetoric as you back then, now doing nazi salutes, committing genocide and exterminating minorities.

If you don't see the link - well, then you do, but you're full of shit. Once again, sealioning.

[-] Bongles@lemmy.zip 6 points 23 hours ago

Not caring is supporting bigotry.

I agree with you

"I don't support nazis, I just don't care if they conquer the world" is not really a good sentence to say.

You know, part of the problem with situations like this conversation, I feel, is that it's always Nazis. It ends up being a cliche that, when something else happens, like the US starting to literally follow similar trends that led to the actual nazi party, it's already something people are tired of hearing and it hurts the message.

They end up not taking this seriously (because web comics, even shitty bigoted ones, are not as serious as what happened in nazi Germany) and then the other claim doesn't get taken seriously because "everything's Nazis with you people".

Just a thought i had when reading this.

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

This comes from the fact that there's less and less space between actual nazis and "just far-right extremists".

And I think people don't really see a point anymore in trying to find a difference, me included.

[-] FishFace@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago

No. Support is support, and not caring is not caring. Redefining words won't change the outcome on the ground.

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

If you are standing by when an oppressor is oppressing, then you are participating in it.

Accepting the idea that being passive is neutral, is a horrible moral stance that is always advantaging the oppressors.

If it is your stance, you are participating in letting the oppressors do whatever they want, which is supporting them.

There's a reason why you can be condemned for seeing someone getting attacked and doing nothing. This "neutral" stance has been known to be a piece of shit stance for centuries.

[-] FishFace@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago

If you are standing by when an oppressor is oppressing, then you are participating in it.

That is not what participation means. Redefining yet more words won't change the outcome on the ground either.

There’s a reason why you can be condemned for seeing someone getting attacked and doing nothing. This “neutral” stance has been known to be a piece of shit stance for centuries.

This would seem to be the "duty to rescue". But there is no universal duty to rescue recognised in law - because there is no such duty recognised universally by people either. And where it is recognised, the punishment for failing to carry it out is less than the punishment for putting someone in harm's way, or harming them yourself.

This is, in fact, a very good way of seeing that "neutrality is aggression" is a minority, and wrong, belief.

[-] Entertainmeonly 8 points 1 day ago

You seem to be conflating legality with morality.

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[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

So according to your logic, if you walk past someone being raped or murdered and you don't give a shit and move on, it's completely fine, because you're just being neutral? You would consider that not helping the victim, doesn't help the aggressor?

How do you even manage to convince yourself of such a logic?

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[-] Entertainmeonly 9 points 1 day ago

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Apathy is an oppressor's greatest weapon.

You may not think you're supporting them, but silence is complicity. And if you're complicit with it, you tacitly support it, otherwise you'd have an opinion on it.

this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2026
296 points (100.0% liked)

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