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this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2026
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I know it because it's in the spec necessary for licensing. It shuts off in under 20 ms so you can't even get shocked by the prongs of the plug if pulled out.
What license? Who is coming to verify your license?
It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany. It has to be compliant with the local law to be sold legally.
It all shouldn't be so difficult to understand.
Or you buy it in Aliexpress/Temu and it will have whatever it will have, no policeman is going to come check if the panel they see from the street has a stamp or not.
But if your house burns down because of your unlicensed configuration, the insurance won't pay, and if people got hurt there will be a criminal investigation.
So you can't buy raw solar panels or inverters in Germany?
It's not, which is why I'm not sure why you're struggling.
Sure you can. Solar panels will be fried by grid voltage more or less immediately if you connect them directly to a wall socket and become useless.
You cannot buy a PV inverter in Germany (entire EU really) that doesn't automatically shut off if it doesn't detect a frequency to sync against from it's AC side, unless it can run off-grid in which case it has to disble the grid connection within the same 20ms.
So you can't buy a grid-connected inverter with off-grid capabilities? Because the inverter has no way to tell the difference between the grid being off, and being off-grid.
Oh you can buy off grid inverters (or inverters capable of "island mode"). But they are required to be able to automatically disconnect from grid, even if they are never going to be connected to a grid. You can't buy solar inverters without this for the exact reason that you can connect them to grid.
Again, it doesn't matter what inverter you buy, they can't tell the difference between off grid and grid off. So if it shuts off when it doesn't detect voltage, then it won't work off grid. Which makes it sound like you're saying off-grid inverters are illegal.
They detect incoming frequency, not voltage. And yes, they absolutely detect the difference, I have one, it works exactly like this.
How do you detect the frequency of voltage that doesn't exist? Hold a wire up in the air and measure the frequency and let me know what you find.
I mean...if there is no grid frequency detected it automatically breaks connection between the house and the grid and keeps supplying the house from the panels and batteries. When it detects grid frequency again it reconnects the house to grid. It's a fairly simple concept.
So you do realize that this is exactly how HV wire detectors work right lol... You hold up a wire (or there's a wire in the wall) carrying high voltage, and the wand will pick up the EM Field.
Right. What's the typical frequency of the EMF field generated by a piece of wire?
What are waves if not frequencies?
Why don't you want to answer the question?
Because waves are frequencies. I wanted to encourage you to think about what your were arguing about.
Right, it's definitely not because you don't know? Waves are not frequencies. Frequency is a measurement of how often something happens, typically measured in Hz. In the case of a loose piece of wire, there is nothing happening, and you can't measure how often nothing happens. But thanks for confirming you don't know.
You have a wire, it has voltage going through it, that means it has an EM field. We can measure said field in many ways. You can even measure this without needing to physically touch the wire. The absence of any electricity at all means no frequency, no em field. Put even 1mv through the wire and now it has an EM field.
You have just measured Frequency vs No frequency. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?
This is not difficult to understand, which is why I don't understand why you're having such a hard time.
None of what you just said explains what the EMF frequency is for a loose wire, or how an inverter would tell the difference between off grid and grid off.
They would likely have two separate frequencies, a standard used nationally "On the Grid" frequency, and if you're "Off the Grid" you would need to have a different frequency then what ever is used locally.
You could use a device Like this to measure, or change the frequency of said wire.
Of course you can buy whatever you like, and whatever is being sold has to be compliant with local legal requirements.
If you buy illegal stuff and cause problems, you will have problems with your insurance and potentially, legal ones.
And that's all I'm going to say on the matter. HAND.
There's no way to prevent people from connecting perfectly legal equipment in an illegal manner, where otherwise there would be.
You are only allowed to sell inverters approved by VDE
Again I ask, if there is no permit, how will the utilities know you are in compliance with this law?
You are required to notify your utilities that you'll be operating a direct plugged small solar PV installation, that's it. They can't forbid you from doing this.
The utilities don't monitor compliance, the manufacturer is.
So it sounds like you're saying there is no way? And therein lies the problem.
The certification on the product shows that it's safe to use in grid-tie. What the fuck are you on about? Are you just being intentionally an obtuse pain in the ass?
Yeah, really weird. It seems like they had some kind of agenda or point to make, but they're going about it a very strange way.
Yeah they seem to be making a big deal out of nothing.
Are you a fucking moron? What's to stop anyone from installing an uncertified product?
What’s to stop anyone from installing a panel without a licensed reviewer taking a look?
...it's illegal?
What's stopping me from plugging a diesel generator into my house when the power goes out? Generators are common in rural America. Don't require a license either.
They require permitting.
How can cars exist when anyone could do an illegal thing to modify them?!?
Illegal things are illegal. Good job. This is not. That's the point.
And things that are regulated are regulated.
What is the point? I mean, truly, what is it that you're trying to convey in this thread?
Do us all a favor and use a few sentences to explain that your point actually is here because clearly you're trying to make a point but you're going about it in a very strange way.
Regulated = legal. This is neither.
I've already explained my point in great detail, several times. The utility is in the right to be concerned about worker safety when people are legally allowed to connect unpermitted potentially unsafe equipment to the grid.
What do you think "certifications" are?
What does that have to do with this conversation? We've already established that no one is ensuring the connected equipment has any sort of certification.
Where did anyone establish that?
Maybe you should reread the thread then because others have explained to you that they're certified.
Are you just trying to get your comment count or something? Such a bizarre way to try to make a point. Not to mention, you're being a major asshole to people for no reason.
I regret even engaging in the first place.
Maybe you should reread the comment you just replied to where I explained that no one is verifying that the installed equipment is certified.
...why would anyone do that? I'm just trying to have a rational conversation.
It's not for no reason, it's because people are being assholes to me first, seemingly out of frustration for not being able to grasp simple concepts.
The world is built around the idea that people follow the rules. If you plug in an uncertified device, you are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.
You realize you could fucking plug ANYTHING into electrical systems now? How many people make Widowmaker cords for generators and back feed the fucking grid during outages? This is not some new problem.
If you're found fucking around, you find out with a big ass fine/jail. That's how it works.
Except it's not that simple, because it's not illegal.
You realize that's illegal?
By now over 1.2 million people in Germany have registered (and even more have not registered) their legal small scale solar system and are producing their own electricity (mine covers 2/3rds of my total demand).
If you think that's a problem, be my guest.
I don't know if it's a problem or not. Do you?