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[-] artyom@piefed.social 5 points 2 months ago

How do you know? In a typical solar system, you have to have a permit, which requires an inspector to come out and ensure everything is configured correctly and safely. These don't require any permits, which is great for making them more affordable and accessible, but there's also no one coming around to make sure that anyone is doing it safely.

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 48 points 2 months ago

I know it because it's in the spec necessary for licensing. It shuts off in under 20 ms so you can't even get shocked by the prongs of the plug if pulled out.

[-] artyom@piefed.social 6 points 2 months ago

What license? Who is coming to verify your license?

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 40 points 2 months ago

It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany. It has to be compliant with the local law to be sold legally.

It all shouldn't be so difficult to understand.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago

It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany.

Or you buy it in Aliexpress/Temu and it will have whatever it will have, no policeman is going to come check if the panel they see from the street has a stamp or not.

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago

But if your house burns down because of your unlicensed configuration, the insurance won't pay, and if people got hurt there will be a criminal investigation.

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[-] ywuduyu@piefed.social 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You are only allowed to sell inverters approved by VDE

[-] artyom@piefed.social 2 points 2 months ago

Again I ask, if there is no permit, how will the utilities know you are in compliance with this law?

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 20 points 2 months ago

You are required to notify your utilities that you'll be operating a direct plugged small solar PV installation, that's it. They can't forbid you from doing this.

The utilities don't monitor compliance, the manufacturer is.

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[-] shininghero@pawb.social 8 points 2 months ago

Easy check, grab a voltmeter and do it yourself.
Pull the plug, set voltmeter to AC, and read the voltage across the prongs. If you get anything over the usual float voltage you get from just holding the probes ungrounded, then you have a problem.

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[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Utilities must approve power export to the grid, even if you do the physical installation 100% off the books. It's called “Permission to Operate”, which requires permits and passed inspections. You can’t just unilaterally add shit to the power grid.

https://www.energysage.com/solar/solar-interconnection-what-you-need-to-know/

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[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

Inverters in the US are all listed to UL1741-SB which dictates that they shall cease to energize their AC outputs if they sense an absence of grid voltage.

Now, one thing people are ignoring is that UL1741-SB allows for islanding protection, and the disablement of it. If an inverter has its settings changed such that islanding protection is OFF, then the inverter will keep sending power to the "grid" because it thinks it's operating on a microgrid that was previously disconnected from the larger grid via a Microgrid Interconnection Device (MID).

The settings these inverters have are user-settable, which means they need to be checked by a qualified person, either a contractor, engineer, or inspector. These settings must also often be checked by the utility you're interconnecting to before they allow you to energize, so usually all of these parties have eyes on the inverters' settings and can stop work before energization until things are corrected.

Ultimately I agree with you. If we don't want to have to need inspections for every solar installation, especially residential ones and especially where plug-and-play solar modules are used, then inverters need to have their settings pre-configured for the grid code in the factory that then cannot be changed by the user or operator in the field. That would be a way to shoe-in this kind of installation.

Hard setting grid codes into inverters prior to shipping to site might be overly conservative though, especially as utilities change their grid codes over time. You need to have a way to update those settings, which could be using a wireless portal hosted by the inverter OEM with credentials made only available to the OEM. Problem with this is that then you shift the burden of configuration to the manufacturer which already has a ton of other UL standards as well as rules and regulations to follow.

What do y'all think?

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this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2026
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