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People for the last twelve thousand years: "Hunting and gathering cannot support the needs of a growing population. We should create a system where crops can be grown efficiently and in high quantities, and animals can be bred and raised. It will be labour-intensive and require specialized knowledge, skills, and equipment, it will lead to the economic stratification of society, but it's the best way to not have most of our people starve to death."
One guy who recently read the Communist Manifesto (abridged version): "But food is literally free!"
I mean, yes, food is not literally free. But there are certainly ways to organize an agricultural society that don’t automatically lead to social hierarchies, and that would be vastly preferable, imo. The enclosure of the commons has been a disaster
So I went and planted a seed, I took care of that seed, I go there everyday check on the plant, protect against pests and weather and then when its finally ready some random guy just comes and "This is ours my comrade".
Nah boi that's MY fucking plant. Do you want to eat that plant you gona have to give me something for it.
..and to get something to give me in exchange, guess what? You gonna have to work! You'll either have to plant something else, hunt, make something etc.
Just because you don't like to work it doesn't mean I owe anything to you
Edit: I just wanted to point out that work is not the problem. The problem is the economical model, some stupid ass works, monopoly etc
"growing population" is a sedentary problem. Hunter-gatherers didn't reproduce like rabbits.
They still did, a bunch of kids just died or were infanticided because that was the closest thing to birth control.
i remember reading that higher calorie supply makes people more willing to breed, so agriculture kinda caused people to have more kids, because they could.
I don't believe infanticide was a common thing at any point.
For one, people in the past were well aware that some herbs had a dampening effect on fertility (not as comprehensive as modern methods, but still apparently visible emough). Together with a longer breastfeeding period and less nutrition, that will have been enough to curtail the actual amount of pregnancies.
People loved their children. There are enough grave inscriptions and stories detailing the depth of grief or framing a willingness to sacrifice your own kid as remarkable obedience (Abraham and Isaac, Cepheus and Andromeda). I see no reason to believe that this should have been so different in the cultures before recorded history.
Nope, that started after the neolithic revolution.
Before that, people had way less kids since 1. diseases weren't as rampant then as they were after beginning agriculture (turns out that living in close corridors and near your animals that are full of diseases and parasites may not be healthy), and 2. people breastfed their babies until 3-5 years, unlike later, when people only breastfed them for a year or so, or even used wet nurses, which allowed the mother to get pregnant again soon after giving birth.
Of course a lot of kids surely died, but not nearly as much as in later societies up until the introduction of vaccines and other parts of modern medicine.
As for infanticide, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on that, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't nearly as common when births were much rarer and attitudes towards groups that later cultures usually killed as babies, such as disabled people, intersex people, and others that were considered 'deformed', were much more lenient.
do you have any sources for infanticide?
was infant mortality higher for hunter-gatherers compared to Neolithic or even medieval times?
some information from a quick search (i'm not an archeologist or anthropologist. I was just very interested in Neolithic period at some time 🤷
https://motherhoodinprehistory.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/prehistoric-child-spacing/
Except that we do that and we still have people starving to death. Maybe we ought to try something different.
Sure, but the answer isn't hunting and gathering.
No one suggested that we go back to hunting/gathering.
Currently reading the Bobiverse take on this. It's still ongoing and I'm curious where the author will fall in the end.