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this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2025
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It's always lovely to be reminded that eugenics remains a popular idea so long as you don't call it that.
I mean, this is a good idea for a big reason other than genes though, people who are currently addicted to meth shouldn't be having kids, not from a gene perspective but as an unfit parent and as an unsafe pregnancy standpoint.
While I agree with you, the problem is, that it opens the door for a lot of other forms of eugenics. Once we decided that Meth users shouldn't have kids we can quickly expand the definition of who is "allowed to have kids". People who take LSD? Those psychopaths. Stoners? Homeless people? Black people?
It gives a certain group of people power over one of the most intimate secsectors of someone's private life. No one can guarantee, that at some point we are not the ones being included in the definition of "unfit for parenting" simply because we have the wrong political views or something like that.
This is only because the word "eugenics" has been made a bad word because people assume that anything called "eugenics" must be similar to the horrible things the Nazis did. It's the non-central fallacy -- such things are eugenics only in the same way that Martin Luther king is technically a criminal (he did violate the law by protesting) or abortion is murder (a "human being" does "die").
Polygenic scoring on embryos is legal and eminently doable if you're wealthy enough to afford it; it's a very effective way to eliminate the risk of debilitating genetic diseases like Down's Syndrome, and can greatly reduce the risk of things like Alzheimer's or some types of cancer. It also can improve the IQ of your child by up to ~8 points or so, which correlates (plausibly causally) with higher education and income in life. So basically, it's an effective way to help make your child more privileged. Right now it's only affordable by the very wealthy though, but perhaps in ten years it will be very cheap.
Notice though that it's unrelated to race pseudoscience and murder, even though race pseudoscientists and nazis like to talk about genetics and IQ.
I don't trust society to fairly give out any kind of health-related benefit. The USA just ended PEPFAR this year, condemning millions in africa to die of easily-preventable diseases. But you don't see me protesting the very notion of medical science.
I don't really see why billionaires change the calculus. So what if they get slightly genetically superior children? They already have everything. As much as I want to tear down billionaires, I'm more interested in seeing the lower class be elevated than I am in not letting billionaires get further ahead.
Gattaca is one of my favourite movies. Is there another thing you're talking about?
I'm canadian. I have heard that san fran is Canada's 4th biggest city by population or something like that, but no, I don't live there.
Something I wonder is why people treat gattaca like it's exactly and completely prescient, but at the same time have no worry at all about AI x-risks because "terminator was science fiction, so there's nothing to worry about."
I mean we do take kids off crackheads. Repeatedly in some cases.
Looks like it’s time to reinvent the Torment Nexus from famed science fiction novel “Don’t Invent The Torment Nexus”. Maybe it will go well this time!
Not eugenics though, if anything it's a rather leftist stance that accepts that you can't control what people put in their body, but tries to mitigates harm for those who have no choice.
Controlling which people are allowed to reproduce is eugenics.
Absolutely, and like most abhorrent evil the first step is such a positive idea you cant possibly object.
Birth control pills are eugenics?
no, because people choose to take them
if they’re forced, then yes, it’s eugenics
They are not forced to take it, they can just not take the meth and have children.
I would really like your opinion on children being "forced" to have MMR vaccination in order to attend pre-school? Do you think it's immoral to take that bodily autonomy away in order to make it safer for all the rest of the children?
no, because MMR vaccines have been proven to be safe, and you are informed that your child must be vaccinated to go school; it’s not like the kid is vaccinated against their knowledge once they get there
birth control pills can have side effects, sometimes very detrimental, and in this hypothetical scenario they’re hidden in the meth, so you don’t even know it’s there
Once again, the hypothetical that it's hidden, is only in your head, that sign doesn't say "hide birth control in meth", it's also fucking unrealistic, if it were to happen the only way it happens if it's legalized, controlled meth that has birth control added to it, or rather it could be that the users can get meth as long as they also take the birth control when they get the meth.
Also your worry about birthcontrol side effects with fucking meth users is goddamn laughable.
It's like going back to ww2 and telling the soldiers not to smoke because it's bad for their health, like the fucking bullets and explosives are way more detrimental to their health, don't you think?
These are all good points but they also apply to alcohol which is a hard drug and a teratogen (causes birth defects). I suspect that people would throw a hissy fit if this was suggested, yet it actually makes perfect logical sense. If meth comes with birth control then all known teratogenic recreational drugs should come with birth control, as no one should be consuming them while pregnant.
Prescribed with any sort of trickery, skullduggery, or hooliganism? Yes.
Your interpretation presupposes malice and lack of transparency.
Almost anything can be made to look really bad with that attitude.
malice is irrelevant
I get why you think that, but it does not say permanent.
If the birth control lasted 1-6 month to ensure active addicts would not have children, I would be kind of in favor of it. There is nothing good about a child being raised by meth addicts or taken by CPS and going through orphanages/foster care.