1463
And nothing of value was lost
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2025
1463 points (100.0% liked)
Lemmy Shitpost
33571 readers
2813 users here now
Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.
Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means:
-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
1.Memes
10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)
Reach out to
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
controversial opinion
These nazi racist fuckheads are still human beings. As unfortunate as it may be and as implausible it might seem, any of us are capable of becoming or raising someone to become entrenched in a bad and hateful ideology. Dehumanizing them doesn't stop their ideas from spreading. In fact, a big part of their ideology is the dehumanization of different groups of people. So please don't encourage that practice.This. Dehumanizing people, even the scum of the world, is not good or justified.
There is only so much empathy you can lend out to a fascist black hole before it sucks you into its hateful gravitational pool. Purity tests like what you are proposing just makes them stronger.
I'm not saying you have to treat them with kindness. I am saying you have to reckon with the fact that they are still human. Or you will be doomed to follow the same path.
I recognize what happened to them was wrong and shouldn’t have happened, but I am glad it wasn’t a person of better moral character to be the victim.
This is a much better and well reasoned take than the one in the OP image.
I don’t believe they are the same species as me. They have devolved to the point where their brains lack empathy, a distinctly human trait.
You sound an awful lot like a Nazi right now.
Is empathy only a human trait? Doubtful. Animals have been known to show empathy as well. Humans aren't all that special, we've just learned to fuck over everything else on the planet.
Wouldn't the fascists even argue that empathy is toxic?
They do, but they also perform double speak to counter their hypocrisy. They’re rather famous for doing it.
It's literally the one message every old European used to preach to us younger generations back in the day. I remember how important it was to them to make us understand that the minute we start dehumanizing people we don't like, we are repeating the cycle.
It is why movies like Der Untergang exists. We have to understand that the most despicable people who ever lived were still human beings and much closer to ourselves than we like to think.
I have carried with me, my whole life the knowledge that I am fallible and I am capable of evil no matter how good of a person I think I am. To a lesser extent, every time I have thought I was too clever to fall for x, y and z, that's when I have fallen right into it. "I would never end up in an abusive relationship. I have too much self respect for that" 🤡 "I'm far too strong to become the doormat in this and that friendship" 🤡 "I'll never fall for fake information online. I'm too observant" 🤡
I could never trust myself to believe I would be too smart, kind or principled to not fall into a destructive and abusive pattern of behavior if the circumstances are twisted just right. I think more people would benefit if they reminded themselves of their imperfections and got off their high horses. On Lemmy alone I have encountered far too many holier than thou types who are super duper anti fascist but ironically act exactly like fascists, but to them it doesn't count because they are "on the right side of history".
Am I sad that some nazi KKK guy died? No. But he was human. Most likely a very terrible human, but still human.
The problem is that fascists know that normal people are empathetic in this way, and they use it against us. It makes it nearly impossible to stop them (without violence).
At some point you're just bowing down to murderous psychopaths who literally want you dead.
Acknowledging and understanding they are human DOES NOT mean cowing down or bowing down to them. It means understanding that they're human.
Not explicitly. But, in my experience, that is usually the implication when people say that.
These are Nazis. If you aren't fighting them, then you're allowing them to spread their hate.
If someone this to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!
I do agree with almost everything you wrote, but I don't understand the moral consequence. One do not have to think they're too smart or too pure to take some kind of solace from the fact that there's one less fascist walking the earth.
To me, that has nothing to do with being "better" as a human. It's just that their project means my/our death. The more they grow, the more we die and vice versa. I do not dehumanize them nor do I think they're stupid or deserve anything.
It's as simple as : the more they grow, the more anything I care for will wither away.
You're right, but it makes people uncomfortable so they don't want to agree with you.
This isn't like the economy. It IS a zero sum game. If they succeed, we lose. If they thrive in life, we lose. If they continue to live at all, we lose.
They can CHOOSE to come back to humanity, unlike their victims, but I won't give them any consideration as having value until they do.
All that was said was that they are still human. Even if we dislike them. That is all. I find it interesting how defensive people are being about acknowledging that a terrible person is still a person.
If we stop acknowledging a bad person as a being a person, we have become what we hate. Its got nothing to do with caring or not caring about a kkk member dying. All we have reacted to was the claim that the guy wasn't a human. That is the dangerous part.
ICYMI, I didn't want to sound defensive. I mean it's an interesting conservation, and I found it intriguing that I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote yet arrive at a slightly different conclusion. People don't always look to pick fights, sometimes, it's just about discussion.
So give her partial credit on the community service part of the sentence?
Two counterpoints to this (although I like the spirit):the paradox of intolerance suggests that intolerance will easily spread if we tolerate it. So in a world where tolerance is abundant: intolerance itself should still not be tolerated.
In a way I feel this may be saying the same thing again, but when we speak of protected classes and human rights we generally think of immutable qualities assigned at birth. That is, it’s not okay to discriminate based on things such as skin color, height, sound of voice, heritage, language, race, disability etc. and you get the idea.
Modern ideas stretch this a bit, as sexuality and gender identity have recently (as in within the last century, and only then within more educated cultures) entered as protected facets of human expression due to our understanding of them as involuntary. Even an individual’s personal religion is universally considered to not be up for debate, even though each of the world’s religions are composed of transient beliefs that an individual is allowed to change whether they are comfortable with it or not.
Any group’s ideas for societal idealism do not and should not get these types of protections, because ideas obviously should change if a better idea is presented. It should be agreed upon that whatever utopia is (for however close the human race can get to it), it would need to be universally agreed upon by all living individuals as well as all possible human group permutations. This is seemingly insurmountably large, so some of us tried to take shortcuts by eliminating other groups, and to make a long story short you could say the world universally condemned these ideas as one of the first “global” acts.
The point is, if somebody has:
Willingly violated the social contract in defiance of available historical context and public information, and
Elected to voluntarily hold that an aforementioned Protected Class of people should be either eliminated or exiled (in service to making their version of utopia easier to achieve), then
Then this somebody has found themselves to be a member of the one group of people (a group founded on voluntary belief) that society at large would be better to either eliminate or exile.
Obviously debate is preferred but one cannot reason with somebody who believes deep down in another group’s inferiority.
I agree with all you wrote, and it's a good point well made. However, in the context of what it's replying to, it could be interpreted as condoning the death penalty for extremists, which I disagree with, if it was intended that way.
Death penalty, but more likely death in combat while trying to oust them from society. Like was done in WWII. These fuckers aren't going anywhere voluntarily, it will take violence to remove them from society.
I see what you mean, in my case I believe that the only viable options are debate then expulsion in extreme cases.
I know I was being somewhat brash when I wrote this (middle of the night where I am) and would likely omit the “or eliminate” part if I written again. I know that was a popular option durning the Nuremberg trials for some of the worst orchestrators but I’m always of the “We have to be better/there has to be a better way” mindset.
My point is less about what rights they might deserve, and more about staying informed and vigilant of the ideological capacities of human beings, including yourself.
^reddit chud
Genuinely curious your perspective: so what then?
How would you want to handle the growing fascism problem because I believe shaming, ridicule and cruelty are due with where we stand and with how bad things are and how much, much, worse they can get.
These are your enemies they have the entire govenment and a cult and they want to brutalize, make illegal and remove people (one way or the other).
What do you propose?
I believe I called them fuckheads so I don't seem to have a problem with ridicule. My point of contention is in the reply tweet of "no human being was harmed". I'm not trying to defend the thoughts or actions of these people, I'm just saying we have to recognize that they are people. I propose building a better world, proving those ideas wrong, and defending ourselves when necessary.
Ummmm.
No?
Fuck nazis and kkk and southern pride and confederate apologists and white supremacists and bigots of all kinds.
Like get fucked. Straight up well known nazis can fucking die. They are worthless. They make a choice to continue being that way. They can do irreparable harm.
Like, fucking no. Just no. You're pathetic.
The ability to strip away the title of "human being" is exactly what they are arguing for. You just have different criteria.
I hope one day you come to realize this is as stupid of a take as saying, "violence is bad!" towards someone bloodied and bruised who just defended themselves from an attack.
At a certain point, someone deserves to be punched in the face. At a certain point, someone deserves to be treated less than a cordial human being.
Ironically, I still agree with, "we need to remember these are human beings". Yes, yes we do. Because we need to ALWAYS remember the sheer depravity other human beings are capable of. That does NOT mean they deserve respect or even life.
Allowing terrible, despicable people to continue being terrible, despicable people is EXACTLY how we got here. Yes, the paradox of tolerance is a difficult chestnut to crack, as it should never simply be, "I hate who they are". Though when someone espouses the very hate you fear and wants to bring that in to the world, it should be obvious...
Just like violence should not be condoned, self defence cannot be condemned, either. What you ask for is condemning self defense because it is not pretty. In times like this, you NEED to understand the emotional equivalence of self defense. Just because someone is willing to throw a punch in direct response, DOES NOT make them equivalent to the people willing to throw the first punch at someone doing nothing wrong.
Nazis and kkk and other scum are attacking the very humanity you want to defend. Yet you want everyone to continue to allow these attacks. You are FAILING the paradox of tolerance.
Jumping back here to say that
Is the only thing I'm saying
Again, just because they are also humna beings does NOT mean they deserve respect or even life.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
The world would be better off if everyone with racist views disappeared today. Let's not defend those who would not hesitate to oppress us.
What those criteria are matters
I would ask you, is it OK to fight Nazis in a war? If you say yes, then what's the difference?
The point isn't whether or not it is okay to fight nazis. The commenter only states that the guy who died is still a human even if we don't like him.
That is a fact. If we start dehumanizing people we don't like, we open ourselves up to becoming monsters no matter how justified we feel we are.
I struggle with this myself. I have a deep-seated disgust toward narcissists and emotionally, I do not consider them human beings. Rationally, I know that they are and that if I continue to refuse to accept that they are one of the countless aspects of humanity, I open myself up to my own narcissistic aspects, where I see an entire subsection of humanity as lesser than me, as pests instead of human beings with a severe personality disorder that most likely came from repeated childhood neglect and abuse.
It is okay to feel strong negative emotions toward people we don't like, but we cannot allow ourselves to dehumanizing them because that is how we become monsters ourselves.
Empathy is hard because it isn't always the easiest or most comfortable path. It can feel downright injust at times, but that is all emotions talking. The more we think about it, truly reflect on it, the more we will understand that choosing empathy over emotional outbursts, will serve us and society far better in the long run. But it is fucking difficult.
You make good, valid points.
But there are people that will continually take from or harm you and ask for empathy afterwards.
Your philosophy needs to deal with those situations as well.
Never harming back has negative consequences for your self.