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they don't mind
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2025
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Every single person who complains that “they” is weird has, without the slightest wisp of a shadow of a doubt, said something along the lines of “yeah their coat is just over there” or “I think they were saying that…”. They can already do it, and it’s not hard, they just really wanna hate.
I'm fine with 'they', but I think you're misrepresenting the very real problem that is inserting a 3rd-person pronoun as a personal pronoun due to the existing patterns ingrained and interpreted through speech.
It doesn't hurt me to try and make the conscious change, I do actively try for the people in my life, but it DOES flow weird in my brain and takes more mental effort to keep straight. At least, it still does, it might get easier with more time, I don't know.
We’ve been doing it for hundreds of years. If you really want to fix something then come up with a plural for “you”; that would be far more helpful.
You may not notice those times you say “they” like in the examples I already gave, but you do say it, and the only thing tripping you up is that you’re thinking about it. It’s like breathing, it’s weird when you’re paying attention but it’s not wrong and you’ve always done it.
"You" is the plural of "thou". It even has plural grammar ("you are", not "you is")
You’re saying that as if you speak to an individual and say “you is”. Do you do that?
That's almost the opposite of what I said.
So, singular “you” also has this “plural grammar” you mention and we don’t say “thou” anymore. So what’s your point, then?
That was my point.
You said find a plural for "you".
I said that "you" is already a plural.
That's it, there's nothing deeper.
Ok, then demand we bring “thou” back with the same fervor. Maybe I’m missing that crusade in your life but if you’re gunna go around acting like “they” is difficult I would expect equal frustration with “you”, no?
I don't recall ever suggesting that "they" is difficult. I have in the past used analogy to "you" to help people get comfortable using "they".
You said it takes mental effort and I’m on a bit of a crusade. Fine, fair enough, but you did bring up unnecessary friction and shit like that is often used as an excuse to not try as hard or excuse people that don’t want to try at all(though yes, you do try).
You have me confused with @OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world
I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're correct. Plural they is at least as old as Shakespeare. The notion that it's only singular is modern.
People really don’t want to treat trans people properly and they’ll even pretend shit they already do easily is somehow weird and too difficult. I’m just a cis dude over her, with a host of non-binary friends, and for the most part I just say “they” and haven’t died yet. And I fuck it up sometimes and don’t get hung from the rafters like these goons think will happen, probably because the only scenario they know is when they get it wrong on purpose or are otherwise agitating someone.
Your anger is on a completely irrational level. I don't understand trans mentality, because I don't feel like a man or woman — I just feel like me — though I want what's best for them (the same as anyone) but referring to someone in the 3rd person makes me feel like I'm referring to someone with schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder. There's even an old Seinfeld episode about a guy that refers to himself in the 3rd person and comedy ensues, because nobody does that.
Just because culture and language doesn't fulfill your requirements or align with your expectations, doesn't mean that the people of that culture or language are malicious and hateful towards you. The world is not required to bend to your feefees. Hell, the only reason I don't care about pronouns is because I struggle to remember names... People tend to get offended when you forget their names as it is, now I have to add another dimension I'll undoubtably fuck up... I can accept trans people being the way they are without giving a fuck, but apparently I can't expect the same acceptance for my brain being the way it is, and if I don't dot my I's and cross my T's as you see fit I risk being called a bigot, so fuck me I guess...
Buddy that’s a whole lot of words to say you’re fucking tool. I’m not even trans, just a cis dude with non-binary friends and a basic understanding of how the English language has functioned for hundreds of years. If your brain cannot handle saying “they” then said brain is fucking pathetic. Figure it out, and if you really can’t at least don’t go trying to make it everyone else’s problem you absolute twat.
Like, it’s not even that you’re having a hard time with a very easy concept, no one is perfect and the added stress of getting it right will occasionally lead to mistakes. My friends don’t hate me when I mess up because they know I’m trying, and people hate you because you’re putting more energy into saying you won’t even try, and calling them schizophrenic for some reason, than just putting in the bare minimum effort.
Pretty sure you was plural and thee was singular. Or something like that.
They has always been a 3rd person personal pronoun just like he/she/it have as far as I know. The thing that people find upsetting is that people want to go back to using it as a singular after some grammarians decided everyone should use he or her for a while.
"Ah yes, let us disregard basic grammar rules in order to make a stupid argument to 'prove' my point, that's clearly what'll convince people that my way is the right one"
Except I am not, they has been used singularly for centuries now.
Let me put it in a way that will make sense for you. Singular "they" is, more often than not, used when people do not know the gender or amount of a group. Whenever you speak of a corporation or company, it is extremely common to use "they" instead of "it". E.g. "they are the ones in charge of making that decision". In the example, you are speaking of a company or similar group, a singular entity by itself. However, since the speaker does not know who or how many people make this decision, the speaker uses a singular "they".
This is but one example of how they has been used as a singular pronoun for ages, but let us digress a little bit. Why the fuck is the royal "we" allowed, but not the singular "they"? They both follow the same structure but inverse of each other, where the royal we is a way to say "I'm speaking of myself as a part of a bigger entity/community". You can make an argument that both of these carry plural connotations, but my point is that grammar rules and language as a whole is way more nuanced than black or white.
So, please, save your spit and time with a counter argument that only pushes forward discriminating thinking and stop being a pussy about language change.
Btw, I'm not a native English speaker, which goes to show that I was actively taught about singular they, instead of picking it up intuitively like most native speakers do.
Edit PS: don't even think of using my non-nativeness as a point against me, I know for a fact I have better grammar and care more about orthography than the average native speaker.
You, in this case, is singular. Why are you using are?!
It turns out, "the issues this causes for clarity in language" don't actually matter, and it doesn't cause any issues. It's perfectly clear "you" and "they" here are singular, despite the plural grammar. It is not confusing, as you clearly proved in your own comment by using "you are."
“They are running late”. We’ve been using the singular “they” for hundreds of years, it isn’t that difficult. German uses third person plural for polite second person singular, it’s not that weird to have third person plural be third person singular, too, especially when English makes no distinction between between “you” and “you”.
Anyway, it’s simple shit.
You is not very smart, is you?
You might want to work on your grammar, my friend.
'Tis meet that some more audience than a mother, since nature makes them partial, should o'erhear the speech."— Shakespeare, Hamlet (1599);
Caesar: "No, Cleopatra. No man goes to battle to be killed." Cleopatra: "But they do get killed" —Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra (1901);
In an 1881 letter, Emily Dickinson wrote "Almost anyone under the circumstances would have doubted if [the letter] were theirs, or indeed if they were themself."
George Eliot (1859) – Adam Bede: “It is too late to spare anyone when they are dead.”
You are singularly really dumb.
Huh? I'm a dummy--teach me this arcane English rule that i wasn't aware of until now. For what it's worth though: Have you always held such righteous standards for dialogue? Hard to follow what people are saying when they (oops!) speak with the wrong perspective? You must struggle in the modern world, the way people eviscerate our language publicly pretty much 24/7. I'd feel bad for you if you seemed like a decent person.
As opposed to arguing about fake rules that don’t even exist in modern English, maybe just apply the slightest bit of logic. Language doesn't work the way you are insisting it does, it’s not math.
No, you dummy. The reason we use "are" with "you" is because it was originally plural. However, language is mutable and ever-changing. You is almost exclusively used as singular now, yet it keeps the plural "are". The point being, your statement that "they is" is wrong doesn't prove anything. We use the "wrong" grammar for words all the time and we don't care, until you can do it to hurt someone.
You are almost there, well done for trying
They're running late?