175
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2025
175 points (100.0% liked)
World News
40512 readers
2662 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I mean, fair, but a lot of the "why" with these guys boils down to "The world acts like all men are terrible, sex-crazed jerks who are violent, angry, and unable to control their emotions while claiming they're actually stoic and that makes me feel bad about myself."
Then, their solution is to double down on all those things because they're upset about being unfairly accused.
Look, if your response to people assuming you're a shitty person is to just... become an even shittier person to prove it, I think it says there was something deeply wrong with you before you doubled down.
I've heard the same shit about men my whole life and not fucking once did it make me go "God damn, I should just be a pile of shit then!" No, every time it inspired me to self-reflect and try to change my behaviors for the better.
So I reiterate, if your response is to double down, something was wrong with you before the turn to Nazism.
Like I don't know why else talking about "rape culture" resulted in young men chanting "Your body, my choice!" at women other than being born and raised as a piece of shit.
That reaction of doubling-down in response to sexism and the (sometimes impolitely stated, but most often true) accusations of masculine malfeasance in broader society is, itself, mostly created by social circumstances - how we socialize young men. Again, they are not born like that, they are not born as people who will become more sexist if accused of sexism or shown sexism in broader society, inherently; they are damaged into creatures which react like that. We must understand where this happens, how this happens - in the very many ways that it does happen - and how to counter it when removing the circumstances is not an immediate option.
You conveniently defined away a possibility there, didn't you. There is preciously little understanding in fifth or sixth wave or whatever is it now feminist circles about how their rhetoric affects young guys, that there even needs to be a conversation about "all men" speaks volumes. Paint with a broad brush and you paint yourself as an adversary of people who, at a young age, approach the topic completely neutrally.
"Hi I'm new here" -- "You are the problem" -- "Fine, I'll go somewhere else". That kind of thing happens all the time and it's not something anyone gets conditioned into.
You might not like to hear this but the media is far from innocent of building the image of young, struggling men being prone to violence and not being trustworthy while it also still fuels the imagery of the older, tough as nails ‘hero’ they wish to become but are not allowed to.
A certain gender controls the media by a vast, vast majority. That gender is not women.
So you're essentially blaming men for blaming men.
I do. This is about a lack of properly traditioning masculinity.
If men can't teach men how to be men, I think men are out of luck.
Not having to fight an uphill battle against a small, but vocal minority of women pushing young men into the false comfort of adversarial relations (and its gurus) would help a lot. Don't actively do damage, is all I'm asking from the female side here. Men didn't invent, say, the ick trend. I can roll my eyes at it, thirty years younger me didn't have that luxury, and getting young boys to ignore it is more involved than just saying "they're stupid, self-absorbed and immature". Shit can do psychological damage, self-image issues, that need healing. The gist is men by and large aren't built for psychological warfare and lots of women have no idea what kind of strays they're firing.
I see. It's women's fault that the men who control the media can't teach other men how to be men.
Finally, the conspiracy all comes together.
Men control women doing tiktoks? Even if a shady cabal of men sits at tiktok HQ algorithmically pushing ick content (why?), you need women to produce it in the first place.
Nah, that stuff is produced by women, for a female audience, it's empathy bait, you can tell by the comments. Young boys then catch it as a stray, "WTF is this what are these standards how can I live up to them".
Ah, I see. "Women doing tiktoks" control the men who control virtually all of the media which is why they can't teach other men how to be men.
It all makes sense when you put it that way.
It's you who's talking about "all media". I'm talking about one specific example "ick tiktoks", stuff I have to deal with in martial arts classes, because freshly-minted teens get confused as fuck about it.
Who are these men that are flooding tiktok with ick content? Making my job harder?
The person I was talking to before you butted in. Literally.
You apparently wished to change the subject without announcing you were doing so.
I wouldn't say it's a shift. Only a subset of media is relevant when it comes to boys. I didn't pull those ick tiktoks out of my hat as a "gotcha" example, this is the type of problematic media that I have to deal with because that's what my students are exposed to. They're not watching linear TV so that doesn't matter, they're not reading newspapers so those don't matter, the vast majority of the established news media sphere doesn't matter and Hollywood is well-balanced by anime, not many issues there. It's fiction in the first place which gets perceived differently, the veracity of tiktok trends can be much harder to asses for teens. Rambo is badass because it's an action flick, they understand that it's a fantasy. Any martial arts movie? The same, and in a martial arts class that's a teaching moment right there, how "making it look cool" and "making it effective" are two completely different things. That ick stuff? They take it at face value, on a deep level.
I'm pretty sure they're not watching feminists on TikTok either. Maybe the weird boys who go to your martial arts classes do. The rest of them watch whoever they've moved on to since Andrew Tate.
It's a semi-random feed. Tiktok throws things at you and if something sticks, they're showing more of it. Pretty much all know about the stuff, many dismiss it, for some it's self-image fentanyl: Both incredibly addictive and destructive: At their age they're looking for information on what girls "really want", and what they get is "anything you do is a possible reason to dump you and you'll never be able to predict what I consider icky the next second" instead of something even remotely sensible. They're seeing their prospects to, at some time, enter a long-term relationship with someone they love shatter, instincts denied, instinct reconfigures and re-affirms themself (because it always does) and now you have someone vulnerable to Tateist propaganda, "grab her by the pussy and make her your bitch". Because that kind of "solution" is way more easy than working through the whole shebang. Without guidance it's pretty much impossible, they're too young. They can't tell their drive to relate and their reproductive drive apart and thus can't see that the Tate way actually denies them one drive to assert the other, while they could have both. Heck they can barely control their limbs.
What I'm saying is that it would be very helpful if that content didn't exist. I could call Tate a loudly barking Chihuahua who got his "world champion" title in an amateur organisation and leave it at that instead of having to go into depth fucking psychology. I hope we can agree on that.