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this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2025
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We should join the EU, fast
That's not enough. They should immediately negotiate an agreement with Britain and France to have British and French nuclear weapons stationed on Canadian soil. Have them there long enough until Canada can acquire their own domestic arsenal.
Canada needs the bomb. It sounds insane, but I am not joking. That is the obvious lesson of the Ukraine war. Canada is already an advanced near-nuclear state. They could have a domestic arsenal within a year or two if they wanted. And borrowing a few nukes from London or Paris in the meantime would provide cover to allow that.
And I say this as an American. I know Canadians may be loathe at the idea of a Canadian nuclear arsenal. But be realistic. It is the only way for Canada to ever be able to credibly deter a direct threat from the US. We can no longer be trusted.
Canada needs the bomb.
The UK does have the bomb but doesn't have missiles to launch it. They are "renting" missiles from the US.
So France is the only country left, but I'm sure France will be extremely happy to help against the US!
Somewhere, the ghost of de Gaulle is laughing...
Yes, absolutely, you are an American. Nobody needs a damn atomic bomb. Not even the USA in WWII. If Trump tries to take Canada by force, it's the end for him. The enemies of the USA will find all the wholes they need in USA's northern and southern borders. For the first time in a long time, war would be fought in USA territory, and everyone would know who caused it.
This is delusional. Who is going to intervene? With what military? What country has an expeditionary force that can best the US Navy, sail across an ocean, and then confront the US Army and Air Force on America's home turf? China? They've been building up for years with the hope of being able to stand up to the US, in the waters directly off the Chinese coast.
The idea that anyone could invade the US is delusional. Also, the US has 5000 thermonuclear weapons. No one is invading the US mainland. No one is invading mainland China. No one is invading Russia. Big nuclear powers are immune to invasion on their core territory.
Again, it's easy to tut tut about nuclear bombs. But they sure have done a good job at preventing more world wars between the great powers.
The fact that that your comment even makes a bit of sense is so completely fucked. Of course I don't speak for everybody but I think it's fair to say that most Canadians do not want to be a nuclear power. We do not want to hurt or threaten anyone, particularly our American brothers? When Pearl Harbour was attacked we declared war on Japan before America did ffs.. shit is fucked up down there
Must be nice having allies like that. Those are the kind of friends you should hold on to and not inflict ridiculous tariffs on or anything like that.
Unfortunately, this is not about what Canada wants. This is about what Canada needs. I do not want Canada to have to build a nuclear arsenal either. Realize, I am advocating for the construction of nuclear weapons that will be pointed at my own head. THAT is fucked up. I do not make this recommendation lightly.
Reality check. 90% of the Canadian population lives within 150 miles of the US border. An M1 Abrams tank can drive that distance in an afternoon. The Canadian military is woefully unprepared to resist such an advance. The Canadian military is not designed to resist the might of the US. It's designed to provide some valuable but niche roles as part of the NATO alliance. And this is not some failure to plan on the part of my Canadian brothers. Frankly, Canada was never going to be able to develop such a capability. Canada has approximately 12% of the population of the US, and a vast territory to defend. Even if Canada become as militaristic as North Korea, Canada simply does not have the resources to develop the capability to militarily resist the US using conventional arms.
Do you think an alliance will save you? NATO membership means nothing in this context. When an outside country invades a NATO member, they can activate Article 5. However, nothing happens automatically. The NATO members then must convene to formulate a response, and any single member can veto the resolution. Greece and Turkey, both NATO members, have fought several armed conflicts while both being NATO members. NATO will not be coming to save you.
The Commonwealth? Could you dust that thing off and appeal to King Charles for aid? I'm sure he'll send his dearest sympathies, but the redcoats will not be coming to save you this time. Compare the stats of the US Navy to the Royal Navy and let me know how that would go. I'm sure the Royal Navy's 160 aircraft will be a formidable match for the US Navy's 2600. We could also look at other military branches. But the disparities would be similar, and the forces of King Charles would have no way to get to Canadian soil. I'm sorry to say, but 1812 was a very long time ago. The forces of King Charles would struggle to resist, with conventional arms, a US invasion of the UK mainland. Realistically, if the UK wanted to offer any meaningful assistance to Canada, it would have to come in the form of thermonuclear weaponry.
What about the EU? Could Canada join the EU? Would that save you? First, it takes years to join the EU. But even if you could waive a magic wand and join tomorrow? The EU does have the population and economy to potentially stand up to the US. But they don't have the defense sector necessary. There is no vast EU expeditionary army that is going to sail across the Atlantic and go to-to-toe against the US Army and Marines. There is no formidable EU Navy that's going to serve as a credible threat to the Americans. In time, the EU could build that capability. But we're talking, extremely optimistically, a decade to spin up that magnitude of a military industrial complex. US army soldiers will be fishing on the northern coast of Nunavut before the EU parliament even passes the budget appropriations.
Could Canadian irregulars resist the advance? Canada is not some war-torn country in the Middle East that has had insurgent fighting going on for decades. There isn't some vast network of Canadian insurgent groups with the skills and resources to build improvised explosives and knowledgeable of insurgent tactics. There aren't thousands of guerilla fighters that might credibly slow down a US invasion. How many suicide bombings has Canada had in the last year? Canada is not Iraq or Syria. I have no doubt that a fierce resistance movement would eventually develop after a US invasion. But irregulars would not be able to actually prevent such an invasion.
If Canada wants to actually deter a US invasion, they need to consider a domestic nuclear arsenal now. They should have considered it the moment Trump started talking about annexation. Canada should negotiate with Britain or France to have British or French weapons stationed on Canadian soil. And that would provide a meaningful deterrent while Canada develops their own arsenal.
Now, the French or UK arsenals cannot come close to matching that of the US. Combined they have 500 warheads, while the US has 5,000. But nuclear weapons are the great equalizer of international politics. Even 50 nuclear warheads on Canadian soil would successfully deter any potential US invasion. It would mean that whatever the US might hope to gain from invading Canada would be dwarfed by what the US would lose in the conflict.
Sorry for the long response. But TLDR, Canada is hopelessly outmatched against the US in conventional military forces, and there is no realistic way its allies will be able to defend it using conventional weapons. A nuclear arsenal is the only way for Canada to ensure its survival as a nation against a US gone mad. And I write this as an American.
The problem is this is already the case. Nuclear weapons may make it even more lopsided, but the country is already losing more than it stands to gain from an invasion purely on the economic results.
So basically, strategically, Canada should get the bomb and become allies with China, since it's the only country that can match the US military
Countries don't have brothers, they have interests.
Certainly true for the US.
And domestic politics - moreso than interests, even. Kissinger and the "realists" were kind of full of shit because of that.
I had not heard that.
At the point in history their government was working at least as well as ours (for good or evil), so I don't know what conclusion to draw.
I'm not an expert in WWII but by that point Canada had been at war in Europe for a few years already, and America was trying to stay out of it. I guess it took a day or two for the sleeping giant to wake up, or something to that effect
Fun fact: we used to have a secret one the Americans gave us.
We could probably whip one up in a month or so. We have all the technology and manufacturing capabilities required. And if CSIS doesn't have some blueprints squirreled away somewhere, I'm going to be surprised and disappointed.
If we're talking nukes and their ultimate results, we could just make our reactors go Chernobyl if they invade.
Ironically, with our reactors, it's actually easier to make weapons materials than it is to make them go boom. It's one of the reasons why we never sell them to non-nuclear nations.
I cannot stress enough how bad of an idea it would be to allow nuclear proliferation at this point
You are way too late.
https://thebulletin.org/2024/07/trump-has-a-strategic-plan-for-the-country-gearing-up-for-nuclear-war/
Nuclear proliferation is always bad. I don't give a damn about the second cold war.
No one said it was good. I said you're too late. The proliferation is happening regardless.
I used to be like you, but then I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!
If i were Taiwan or Iran or Ukraine it would be my top priority.
You should watch Perun's "All bling, no basics". Maintaining a nuclear arsenal is expensive.
You're assuming Canadians will be immediately granted American citizenship and representation. Most likely, Canada would become a US territory like Guam or Puerto Rico, and kept that way for at least a generation.
I really don't think you can not give 41 million people the vote. Even trump when he says 51 state implies that it's a merger, to use that word.
Why not? Denying 41 million a right to vote is a minor crime compared to forcefully conquering a peaceful neighbor that had been your closest neighbor. You're talking about a conflict that would easily kill 10% of the Canadian population, and likely level every major Canadian city, by the time the resistance efforts were finally stomped out.
He's saying they would make a 51st state eventually. The US's client state, Israel, denies the right to vote to nearly half of the population of the areas it controls. And we're their greatest ally. Why can't we deny the right to vote to 10% of the people in the territory we control? (Canada's population would represent about 10% of the combined US-Canadian territory's population.) Hell, we already disenfranchise millions due to felonies. And we disenfranchise millions through voter purges. And it was only in the 1960s that we stopped outright legally disenfranchising people due to skin color. You're seriously trying to argue that a fascist government would have moral qualms about disenfranchising large numbers of people!
The US could quite easily even go far as to say, "all Canadian citizens in the occupied territories are resident aliens and will not have the right to citizenship. Their kids will have citizenship, but no one who has ever held Canadian citizenship will get US voting rights." Every Canadian currently alive simply never gets to vote.
This is entirely possible. A right wing authoritarian government is not stupid. They're not going to immediately grant voting rights to people that will immediately vote them out of office. The only way they would do that is if they were confident that elections were so utterly corrupted that giving Canadian's American citizenship wouldn't change the outcome.
Since you seem to be taking this seriously, the only way to do this without becoming THE international pariah on the likes of North Korea is to do it peacefully.
If there is an invasion that comes to blows, the US will become person non grata on the international stage. Everyone will boycott everything from the US and to do with US. This is where you say but but but iraq, and that's where I say that was different. If the US invades an ally, its finished internationally. I know it's all rah rah USA number 1 but you need international support/trade/commerce/cooperation. It's not that people care that much about Canada, it's that no one will ever want to do or find the need to do business with the US again when there is no trust. They would have just showed that there is no such thing as cooperation with the US. It will be down to Russia and NK (and China will sell things, but China basically thinks they are above having friends/allies). So it you think a right wing authoritarian government is not stupid, they wouldn't do it, except "peacefully".
I fucking wish man. I have wanted to live in Iceland for my entire adult life and I finally could. I know they aren't EU but they are Schengen before someone says "well actualyl"
American here: yep. NATO is going to become effectively useless in short order, and it’ll be all our fault. Save yourselves; hopefully we can get our shit together at some point, but I’m not counting on it tbh.
there's a reason France maintains a second, non-NATO, arsenal. there's also a reason Poland is buying what France is selling
Um it's still NATO. It's just under their command.
You're in NATO, if the USA betrays NATO and attacks NATO, they will presumably trigger the famous Article 5 and be at war with all of NATO.
Besides that, you're also in the Commonwealth, and as such I expect the UK and her allies to come to your aid. Our government is spineless shite these days, but I expect we won't shirk our most solemn of obligations.
Either way, if the fascist US invades Canada, it'll be all out war between the US and all of NATO. Won't end well for anybody, but it definitely won't end with the US annexing Canada.
Might end with the Western world being an atomic crater (including the USA) with nations like Russia and China picking over our corpses to establish a new world order, but won't end with Canada being annexed.
The US government would have to be suicidal to do this. Utterly suicidal, to the point of actually being traitors to their own nation.
If the US used military force (unlikely), they'd just do what the Russians did in 2014. They'd little green men in who were obviously American soldiers, but where there was (barely) plausible deniability.
No sane country wants to actually go to war with the US, so that would give the NATO allies the excuse they needed not to declare war on the US. They'd just lament the tragic incident, and demand an investigation into who these soldiers actually were, and then it would all be over.
Most likely, the next thing to happen would be negotiations with the US like the negotiations with Germany after the Anchluss, with European leaders playing the role of Neville Chamberlain, attempting to appease Trump.
Well boy do I have news for you
Please do. Like, yesterday.