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Alright... but who's the bottom?
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this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
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Microblog Memes
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How?
Assuming good faith question: The (false) dichotomy of top/bottom implies a power dynamic in which the bottom is subservient to the top. In reality, it's often a simple preference and bottoms can domineer just as well as tops. Some prefer it that way. And there's more than top and bottom. Versatile is the obvious third option (no or changing preference for position) as well as side (prefers non-penetrative sex).
There's this stereotype (may not be the right word) that extends from the above in that tops are more masculine or powerful by virtue of topping, due to the tie with being dominant. Thus bottoms are more feminine and subservient. All of that is false and represents the gay community in a pretty bad, oversimplified, sexist-somewhere-along-the-line way.
The dom/sub axis is not the same as the top/bottom axis (not really an axis).
It’s not just the top/bottom part that’s problematic, it’s the entire post. The punchline is “Trump and Elon are gay for each other, isn’t that funny?” which centers the idea that it would be bad or wrong for them to be gay for each other, perpetuating the conservative stereotype that there’s something wrong with being gay.
Oh FFS.
We (gay people) have been pointing out the hypocrisy of homophobes with this sort of joke for ages and will continue to do it because it's fucking hilarious. We are, in doing so, celebrating that it's wonderful to be gay and sad that they don't see that or see there at times in-the-closet-like behavior.
The last thing thing I need is a bunch of word police telling me what I can and cannot say.
You know who IS making it seem like there's something wrong with being gay? People like you.
As a “joke” it treats being gay as derogatory. You’re welcome to make shitty homophobic jokes if you want to.
Are you gay?
Are you not ok with being gay if you are? Are you not and experiencing latent homophobia?
Because that's the only way you can possible conclude that it's derogatory to call someone gay.
lol, the idea that I’ve said there is something wrong with being gay or being called gay is rich.
You've said that using jokes about being gay is derogatory. Literally what you are saying is that calling someone gay has negative connotations. It's bad to be gay.
Let's try to put this in simple terms:
If one of my many very gay male friends calls someone a fag they are owning the definition of "fag". If I call myself a dyke I own that word. If we joke about homophobes being secretly gay we own the language and we erect a shield against that being used in a derogatory manner against us.
You want to police those definitions and tell people what they can and cannot say and can and cannot joke about. You want to take away that shield.
I suspect you are young and did not live through a time when it was absolutely CRITICAL for the queer community writ large to take control of our language. Literally that was the only way we gained power and the only way we made jokes about fags and dykes NOT be derogatory.
Jokes that treat being gay as bad are themselves homophobic, yes - they do not reclaim the word, they perpetuate hatred. You’re welcome to make those jokes - I’m not stopping you by calling out your internalized homophobia.
You can also reclaim any words you want to. Nothing wrong with that.
Nobody's telling you what you can and can't say. They're telling you that what you said is in bad taste, and youre telling them to stop saying that.
LOL. I'm pretty sure saying "that is just homophobia, by the way" is exactly trying to tell people what they can and can't say.
I disagree. If someone came up to me and said "Buenos dias! Donde estas el bano?" and I was like "that is Spanish, by the way", I have simply made an observation and have not implied that they aren't allowed to speak Spanish.
LOL. And you seriously don't see the difference between "hey that's homophobic" and someone speaking a different language and pointing that out?
Wow. Ok then.
No. "That's homophobic" and "That's Spanish" are simply statements of fact. It's left up to the listener whether they should continue being homophobic or speaking Spanish after it's been pointed out. It sounds like you've chosen to double down on homophobia. Not the choice I'd make, but you do you. Nobodys stopping you. No es mi problema.
If you are going to be basing arguments on statements of fact your comparison should be factual.
One is subjective opinion and one is relatively objective fact ( assuming actual correctness and there not being some weird exception like a subset language or something ).
Unless you are personally the global arbiter of what is and isn't homophobia, in which case ignore me.
Good call, I missed it. We've got layers of shittiness in this meme.
Sure, but the joke here is turning the dumb jokes of the homophobes against them, right? Calling a homophobe "haha u'r gay n a bottom" is kinda using their homophobia against them, no?
Also, I'm gay myself. If someone said "haha, u like taking it up the ass", I would be like, "sure I do!". Say this to a homophobe n they would be incredibly offended. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But sure, I get why the morals of this aren't so straightforward.
You aren't wrong. It's rather philosophical at that point. There's the "don't say it because it's shitty angle" (quasi-mine, though mine was more a explanation vs a held belief) vs the "take it back from them" angle. Both have pros/cons and I'm not going to pretend I have the 'perfect' answer. The truth is probably that whichever is more effective/least damaging probably varies by context.
This is just absolutely ridiculous. It's thought police over-engineering for clout.
It's a dissection of why some people in the LGBT community may be offended. If you're unwilling to try to see the perspective of others and choose to instead reject empathy, that's a problem for you and the people around you. This internet stranger will continue to have a good day.
Also, clout? On Lemmy? Oh good, I've got the support of all 12 of us...
you really can't see how using sexuality to mock someone you hate is homophobic?
It's not using sexuality to mock someone. It's using hypocrisy to mock someone.
You know what's the same thing? When gay men call each other fags or lesbians dykes. It's taking what was intended as derogatory and flipping it around to celebrate it. It's the ideal response to bullying assholes of any kind.
I guess it would make it okay to call a black right-winger an N-word and talk about how he can't swim and only eats chicken and watermelon, then?
and I'm sure you know that not everyone is comfortable doing that because of their lived experiences. it's awesome that homophobic jokes don't affect you, but not everyone can distance themselves from them.
If you are black, yes, it would be ok. And many black people do. It's the exact same defense mechanism.
Then let them not be comfortable with it and let me and my people alone. Do not try to police my language just because perceive someone somewhere to have experienced some mild discomfort... and why? WHY DO I SAY THIS?
Because honey, they need to arm themselves against that discomfort. You need to have a shield and that shield is OWNING the words. If you let people who use derogatory words own them you have lost power.
Calling a homophobe gay isn't homophobia though, is it
Yeah, it is. It reinforces the idea that there is something wrong with a gay homophobe being gay, rather than the problem being that they are a homophobe.
Are you serious?
... you could just explain your logic you know.
It isn't the general consensus.
😒
Thanks for trying.