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Far left intellectualism
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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The jews are not Israel but Israel definitely wants people to keep conflating them that way.
and the palestinians are not the ottomans, for that matter
No, but there were Jews in that area. And even more Jews all over the peninsula.
How many of them were Israeli?
They were Old Yishv, they were part of the foundation of Israel.
Are they the same as the Yishuv who collaborated with the Nazis?
Unironically I've heard this talking point before, when shouting down a nazi at a rally at my school in 2014. You know the english spelling of Yishuv so I'm going to assume you know what demographic they're from, and that that's not physically possible. You can down vote me all you like, but at least I can say I don't agree with nazis
So its important to make distinctions between different groups of jews, and be aware of historical context, but only when those things are useful for defending the Zionist project. Got it. Thanks. And I haven't voted on a single comment of yours beyond the first.
I was refering to general downvotes towards stating historical fact, I'm not the one who conflated "indigenous" Jews to the ones literally running for their lives and making it sound as if they collaborated with the nazis. Do you really think I'm a zionist that's laughable, I just know the history of the region
You're really going out of your way to inject irrelevant historical context into a discussion that doesn't really require it which is a pretty typical Hasbarist tactic for muddying the waters of discourse around Israel. If you're not a Zionist you're doing their work for them.
Just read your own comment back to yourself, painting me as a bad guy for conflating one group of Jews with another when my original problem with your comment was you doing the exact same thing. I didn't sincerely draw that comparison, I asked if you considered them the same people to illustrate the problem with this kind of conflation, but it seems to have completely flown over your head.
Look you want me to address this sure, the poster above said that this had only been going on for about 100 years, but its not, this region has been in contention between various religious and ethnic groups and the Jews for 1000s of years, I just provided historical examples. How is that not relevant to the original poster claiming this started recently?
My point is this, I think your world view is this, that what actually happened is indeterminable, and that the only way forward that's just is to conflate what's happened into whatever looks best for "your side". I'll explain why I think this is awful, because in a large part there have been active efforts to end the apartheid in Gaza and to free its people, but this convolution of my side is the only side that's correct has been a major driving force behind making sure the walls stay up. I only see the war ending 2 ways, either Israel glasses gaza or the shit finally gets resolved and out of all this bloodshed Israel and palistine become regional powers. this, objective denying of facts and twisting the rhetoric will help lead to the former, not the latter.
My dude what happened is imminently determinable. It's recent fucking history. It's safe to assume they fairly accurately recorded every part of Israel's creation because to them it wasn't seen as a bad thing to establish a western colonialist outpost in the middle east, and to use the Zionists and the Holocaust as the excuse to do it.
The people killed 1000 years ago were not Israelis. The people who killed them were not Palestinian. All of this history is irrelevant to conflating "The jews" with "Israel" which you shouldn't do, and is the only problem I had with you bringing it up.
As far as the outcome I mostly agree. I don't see this ending in a way were all three of Gaza, Israel, and Lebanon continue to exist simultaneously. My preference is that the colonist state gets abolished, but I have no delusions about the likelihood of that outcome. My "side" is against the people committing genocide. I have no special place in my heart for Gaza or Lebanon, or special hate in my heart for Israel. I have no real opinions about jewish people as a whole because it is stupid to treat an entire religion and ethnic group as a monolith.
Is the same shit I heard coming from nazis in the teens. You can say all these fancy words or whatever, but I'm mad at you for talking like a nazi.
Nazis also supported Zionism. How will you resolve this contradiction i wonder.
So... are you a nazi? You keep on saying these things nazis say, I get that you would never admit it on a public form but for real, thats mask off.
It's Nazi talk to state historical facts now? That's crazy man. Every time you accuse me of something it's like some kind of admission.
why would a Jew want to leave 1930s Germany after Hitler took power and promised to wipe out all the Jews? I don't know, its a mystery to me. I'm not talking to anybody else but you at this point. Consider what you're saying, you've been duped into thinking facts are meaningless unless used for retoric. Never say this, >Nazis also supported Zionism. How will you resolve this contradiction i wonder. unless you're the lowest form of scum on earth.
Did you miss the part where that was not a sincere attempt to conflate the two, but an attempt to make you understand why doing that kind of conflation is bad? Are you being intentionally dense because its much easier to accuse me of being a closeted Nazi than to address the arguments I've made directly?