we contact the parents, make sure they're compatible politically, theologogically

This is insane. You call that kid’s mom to ask who she votes for and what name she uses for god, and if it doesn’t match yours, kids can’t have fun?

What’s your argument agaisnt it though? This is a hypothetical scenario, what I care about or not doesn’t matter. Is it that somehow it’s the act of choosing when they die that’s immoral?

Forget about their suffering existense, in this scenario they have a better life than in nature since they don’t have to worry about predation while still being able to roam about.

There is no gray area.

Let’s take a more extreme situation then. I have chickens. They are free to roam around the yard and do whatever they want. Eventually, when they reach the end of their lives, I kill and eat them. Suffering wise, it’s the exact same as if I hadn’t killed them, they just lose a few of their last days. Honestly it might just save them suffering, considering how most of those last days are spent in pain. Do you still think this is somehow still immoral, despite no additional suffering having been added?

If so, then I guess you’re also one of those people who think humans should live as old as they can, despite their suffering?

I’ll stop right there, feels like I’m talking to AI.

How can you not? It’s the case for every other animal out there (knock them unconscious and they no longer feel pain). How would one even have what it takes to feel anything without a brain? Reacting to a stimuli and understanding it is not the same.

Besides, by this same logic of “this can’t be proven”, it also can’t be proven plants don’t feel pain, since they also have the equivalent of nerves and response to stimuli.

Since a brain is required to process pain, how else do you suppose they would feel it?

I mean I agree, I’m all for a plant-based diet for health reasons. But most vegans out there, including the one I was responding to, only use suffering as their argument. Here the part I disagreed with was the “always morally wrong” blanket statement.

There are so many things you can’t prove and yet still act upon, this is a stupid conversation. For literally every other animal out there, it’s proven that pain is only felt once it reaches the brain. Why would you somehow assume muscles now have a mini brain to process it locally.

I can and have You… don’t eat plants and mushrooms anymore? What kind of diet is left then?

It’s the same with plants, they too react to stimuli, that’s how they avoid harm. Like how some plants become “soft” in the face of harsh weather to avoid breaking. Or others physically move. If you cut a plant but not fully, you can see the plant try to repair it. How is this any different from a brain-less animal reacting to its stimuli?

They… don’t have brains, that’s proven. Sure, they can process information, but so can mushrooms and even some plants, such as trees. Will you stop eating those too?

The vast majority of the animal kingdom kills other animals for food. But somehow at some point we decided it wasn’t cool for humans to do anymore? What about controlled hunting, where animals will die regardless of whether or not you kill them?

Where do you draw the line? Of course oysters and the likes are fine since they’re incapable of suffering, physical or otherwise. But then what if they’re capable of suffering, but incapable of many other thoughts besides instinct? Depending on how you kill them, they might suffer less than a natural death.

Black-and-white statement like yours “it’s wrong, period” are why vegans have bad reputation. Instead, consider focusing on actual issues, such as poor treatment of animals throughout their lives, or the health advantages of not eating meat.

But really it’s a human problem. As long as humans get power, they will misuse it. Perhaps not all, but some will.