If only his Mother had a Gun she could have Protected herself from her Son who had a gun and accidentally Shot her! That's literally the ONLY way she could have saved herself!
With two guns, she would have been twice as safe!
An armed society is a society where people are looking for someone to shoot.
From across the pond, it seems wild how bad it spiralled out due to capitalism. You guys got sold on the idea of having to defend your own house at any point of time... Leads people to have fantasies of being in such a scenario to use their custom piece to end a fool!
Are we really surprised it ended this way?
I'm armed. Not seeking any victims. Have a nice day.
Be honest. You've had dreams/thoughts of killing someone in self defence.
Is Missouri the new Florida?
This is a sad story, but as a former Missourian it's not super surprising.
There's anger and distrust that's festering there. A societal anger, not a personal one. It's a personification and personalization of national politics.
I can't describe the relief it is to not live in that environment anymore.
I am incredibly lucky.
Yet another reason to ask questions first.
Knowing your target (and what is beyond it) is one of the core rules of gun safety.
Not owning a gun is my favourite gun safety rule.
Positive identification. Always.
To be fair it could have been a cop and they don't ask questions first either before unloading multiple magazines worth of ammo so 🤷
What is wrong with some people? The chance of someone with intent to cause bodily harm trying to break into a residence when someone is home is essentially zero.
That's why you've got to grab your cool guns and start blasting immediately -- you might never get another chance.
It's low but nonzero, and depends on your exact location.
But what's wrong with them is the constant stoking of their fear by Fox News and similar media, that tells them that the illegals are breaking into their houses to steal their wives and rape their jobs, or something.
Nearly ~~600,000~~ 900,000 burglaries occur yearly in the US, with 27.6% occurring while occupants were present and 25% of those incidents involving ~~an assault~~ violent crime on the occupants. (https://insurify.com/homeowners-insurance/insights/burglary-statistics/) That comes to ~~37,500~~ ~62,100 ~~break-in assaults~~ victims of violent crimes from break-ins in the US per year, divided by 123.6 million households in the US comes to a 1 in ~~3,296~~ 1,990 chance of a household's occupants being assaulted in a break-in each year. That's ~~68%~~ roughly as many incidents as being injured or killed by a firearm anywhere in the country each year as tallied by the GVA. Hardly zero, unless you also mean to minimize US gun violence.
Though either of these stats are hardly able to be applied broadly across the entire country given their driving force of poverty and its extreme regional & local disparities.
Edit: Actually those 600,000 burglaries only account for 69% of the US population. The actual number is ~900,000 nationally, bumping the math's number of violent crimes including assault, robbery, and rape experienced in homes up to ~62,100 or 1 in 1,990, surpassing being a victim of broad gun violence as tallied by the GVA when removing instances of justified self-defense.
I feel like you're minimizing the part where it's 0.03% by contrasting it with what you take as the given that individual gun violence is a likely threat in most of the country.
Gun violence can be a problem without it being a specific actionable concern for the majority of people.
It's why it's not contradictory to think we should work to reduce gun violence, and also not find it necessary to be armed in anticipation of imminent violence.
you take as the given that individual gun violence is a likely threat in most of the country
I don't. As I said, poverty & organized crime is a driving factor in both burglaries & gun violence moreso than any other metric and heavily skews those statistics between localities. Many regions will have rates 3-4x that. I also feel like you're minimizing the part where it's 1 in ~~3300~~ 1990 per year, which applied over even just 50 years comes to ~~1.6%~~ 2.5% of people experiencing it in their lives. Hell, the total burglary number of ~~600,000~~ 900,000 is nearly thrice the rate of house fires in the US.
It would absolutely be inconsistent to cite gun violence stats as a cause of concern for the average person (2) (3) while dismissing being assaulted in a burglary, nevermind being burgled at all, as an essentially zero chance.
As an interesting point of reference, UK home break-ins occur at a rate of 578,000 yearly for a population with just 27.8 million households. That works out to 2% of households yearly being burgled, and per the first source over half of those occur while someone is present in the house (twice as often as happens in the US). Here's another source citing a 1.27% rate of domestic burglary for the year ending in June 2023, and that's vs the US rate of 0.728% (1.7-2.7 times higher). I can't find any sources for what percentage of these break-in lead to assaults on the occupants, but for even the more conservative number of 1.27% from earlier and 50% of those being occupied homes, a rate higher than 6.90% of those occupied burglaries leading to assault would place the odds of being assaulted in your home in the UK higher than in America. This article working off of 2020 ONS data cites that of the 64.1% of incidents where someone is home 46% were aware and saw their burglars, and of those 48% reported being threatened and 27% reported force or violence being used against them. Plugging that into the most recent rate of 1.27% being burgled, that comes out to a 1 in 989 chance yearly of being a victim of violent crime by burglars in your own house, double that of the US.
I wonder what's different about American households that so dramatically shifts both the number of break-ins as well as how/when they occur. Poverty certainly plays a role, where the UK's poverty rate after housing expenses is twice that of the US (22% vs 11%). Doesn't explain the nature of the break-ins though.
Edit: See math from earlier post, actual number is 1 in 1,990 yearly, or a 2.5% chance of experiencing violent crime in a home invasion over 50 years. Also makes the rate of burglary nearly thrice the rate of house fires in the US. Updated the math throughout the UK paragraph to match.
I don't want to ruin your little gish gallop, but the act of "home invasion" is fundamentally different in the UK and the US.
You and your little pro-gun cult friends have ensured that criminals have easy, widespread access to handguns, turning "somebody stole my iPad" into "somebody stole my iPad and then shot me in the spine".
You've had over 20 years to prove your bullshit claims of "guns prevent crime" and not only are crimes not significantly prevented, you've created a massive excess of far more serious crimes.
More than 11,000 burglaries in 2021 involved assault
That's a direct quote from your article so where does the "37,500 break-in assaults" number come from when it's 3x higher than what your source lists?
Furthermore,
In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S.,
Meaning you're 4x more likely to be shot by someone than assaulted during a burglary
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Meaning you're 4x more likely to be shot by someone than assaulted during a burglary
You're wasting your breath. Gun owners are extremity selective about the statistics they choose to care about.
If they're supplying them, they're usually bullshit and if they're demanding them, it's usually sealioning. Their fixation on numbers vanishes the moment those numbers don't say what they want.
He can vomit up all the numbers he wants but if guns actually solved the problem, America would have the lowest crime rate in the world. Instead, they have crime rates that are practically identical to countries with comparitive levels of wealth and education.
Only in America, there's a layer of murder on top of every crime, because "responsible gun owners" keep arming criminals with their unsecured firearms and dogshit laws.
If they’re supplying them, they’re usually bullshit
No need for hypotheticals here, we've got hard examples of stats & studies that either are or aren't bs. Although the only bit I talk about on gun violence is from the GVA, but you're welcome to call them BS if you wish.
there’s a layer of murder on top of every crime
At ~20,000/year, it's 1 in 17,500 people. Or 1 in 6,180 households to keep comparisons equal.
The point of the comparison isn't to downplay gun violence, as should have been evident by how I'm arguing an equally-likely violent home invasion isn't something to dismiss.
where does the “37,500 break-in assaults” number come from when it’s 3x higher than what your source lists?
Specifying assault specifically was a mistake on my part, as I said the math came from the article's citations on all violent crimes experienced by occupants during break-ins multiplied against the year's 583,000 burglaries. Of that 26% number, 18% is assault while 6% is armed robbery and 2% is rape. I'm not sure where the article's 11,000 claim comes from, as that number is uncited and would represent a substantial decrease vs the numbers they have citations for, which showed consistent values year-to-year in the mid-2000s though at a significantly higher overall rate of burglaries at 3.7 million/year. The closest number I can think of would be if they're just counting specifically aggravated assault, which using the cited percentage of occurring in 4.5% of occupied break-ins would come to 10,125 instances in 900,000 break-ins.
And actually, re-reading the article shows the 600,000 burglary number only accounts for 69% of the US population whose law enforcement reports numbers to the FBI, real numbers from the FBI are 900,000 for the past couple years making that number's discrepancy even worse with the math's number of 62,100. I'm not able to find any more recent data on either a % or a hard-number of home invasions resulting in assault or other violent crime victimization, if you have any please share.
Meaning you’re 4x more likely to be shot by someone than assaulted during a burglary
Coming at me citing suicide stats in a crime discussion, nice! And not even applying them correctly, using the number of deaths as a stat for being shot at all. I already referenced a more accurate, if still flawed, number by summing injuries & deaths from the GVA above.
Coming at me citing suicide stats in a crime discussion, nice
Suicide victims aren't even cold before the pro-gun community sweeps them under the nearest rug, desperately hoping that if they're quick enough, nobody will notice that means reduction is extremely effective in suicide prevention.
You're still more likely to be shot by someone, it's just the "someone" might be you.
But it'll never be one of your kids with one of your guns, will it buddy?
You’re still more likely to be shot by someone, it’s just the “someone” might be you
Pardon me for not considering actions I have control over in a discussion on the likelihood of violence one doesn't have control over. And again, I'm citing larger numbers for gun violence victims than what they are citing incorrectly.
But it’ll never be one of your kids with one of your guns, will it buddy
At 1 in ~2000 odds (10 in 10,000 suicide rate, 50% firearms for ages 10-24), or literally the exact same odds that I'm saying a person should be prepared for based on their consequences, those are absolutely odds I would act to minimize if I lived with a minor or anyone suffering mental health issues.
Just here to point out that it'll never be your home, will it buddy?
Never happened to you so the scenario is invalid?
I've had armed men break in my house on Christmas Eve. Fuck me, I had a bear wonder in my dog door, laughably on Christmas Eve again. Had a wolf hybrid come in another time. He was my buddy though, knew him.
I hope you're never helpless and defenseless.
Did you have a child die screaming and terrified on their classroom floor at the hands of a legal gun owner? Were you ever hunted in a mall by a teenage extremist with a semi-automatic rifle?
Actually fuck it, did you even shoot the "armed men" or dog-sized bear, or did it turn out you didn't even need your guns in the bullshit you just made up.
I hope you're never helpless and defenseless
That's very clearly not true.
Believe it or not, this is not the first time on Lemmy someone has justified owning a gun to protect themselves from bears.
And this statistic still stands:
There have been 67 fatal black bear attacks (and they would be the only ones small enough to come through a dog door) in North America since 1900. Most of them were defensive attacks.
https://wiseaboutbears.org/about-us/bear-attacks-2/
There's a very easy thing to do if there's a bear in your house that doesn't involve shooting it- leave and call animal control.
It also means you don't have to get rid of a bear carcass and clean bear blood off the carpet.
I had a bear wonder in my dog door, laughably on Christmas Eve again.
What was it wondering about?
My aunt killed her husband with a gun when he came home early from his business trip to surprise her.
I explained the Castle Doctrine to my daughter not too long ago. I just love explaining to her why this sort of thing happens in America.
I hate when Missouri ends up in the news for stupid things. I promise, we aren't all idiots.
Oh yeah? Name 3 things that is great about Missouri!
No seriously, I'm asking because I have a friend who feels the same way, and I want to go, "Well, you still have (3 things here)" and cheer them up.
Food and national parks. It's always food and national parks when you need to find something nice to say about an american state.
It's like they think other places don't have good food or pretty scenery.
The Italian food in STL is top notch, Lake of the Ozarks is fantastic, Mark Twain Ntl forest is gorgeous, the Katy trail linking towns and wineries from STL to Jefferson City is very special, and they never get wildfires or droughts :)
Bet he gets off with a warning after crying himself some Rittenhouse tears during the trial
Hey you know how I avoid never accidentally shooting someone? Not owning a gun. Gun makers hate this one trick but they can't stop you.
Target id is very important. Weapon lights are important. This shit will haunt him for the rest of his life.
Considering we don't have any real clue as to the exact setting and situation... Yeah we know he thought there was an intruder... But... There's a lot we don't know. I'll wait for the details before judging
Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and judge. Whatever the reasoning, the guy is at best a negligent idiot.
Give us a scenario where he didn't have time to ask "who's there" before shooting his own mother.
You know what's crazy? These tube things you can put in your pocket. They take a battery, you press a button and light comes out the front! Doesn't even stop until it hits something you maybe wanna see. It's nuts, I tell ya.
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