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If you ban scrolling in public, only criminals will scroll in public. Remember, the only way to stop a bad guy scrolling in public is a good guy scrolling in public.
Scrolls, not trolls!
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Are they also going to ban reading newspapers or books in public or are they hypocritical boomers?
I believe I know what you are getting at, but still, that's not exactly an equal comparison:
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2020.1a13
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563214001149
So you’re suggesting people are only allowed to use the optimal method for everything?
Personally I’m not attempting to deeply study Lemmy in the three minutes I’m sitting in a reception area but YMMV.
No, I was not suggesting that, but you already knew that - if not, feel free to rejoin this conversation once you have left that reception area and increased your attention span beyond the 3 minute of waiting you're trying to kill.
Also, just to be clear: the French proposal is bullshit, although at its core, there probably is some merit. I do not agree with the execution. In the end, it's a minorty of people helplessly clawing at something they don't understand. That doesn't mean your argument of "tHeY ShOuLd aLsO BaN BoOkS" is any more meaningful.
Smartphone addiction exists, and we are currently exploring the correlation of screen time, social media consumption etc. and depression, anxiety and ADHD in both teenagers and adults.
All I wanted to point out was that reading books and spending time in front of a screen are not equal.
I just employed the same tactic you did. It seems you didn’t appreciate that. Perhaps your original tack wasn’t the right one to make your point?
f not, feel free to rejoin this conversation once you have left that reception area and increased your attention span beyond the 3 minute of waiting you’re trying to kill.
woooow where did that come from??
Yeah it's a major problem. But I see it more as a cultural problem not one that can't be solved with legislation.
Well except maybe make using your phone in a theater punishable by prison time. I'd support that because WTF people?
But besides in places where it will disturb others, then there isn't much that can be done at a regulatory level.
No they don't. They say there is a difference between Smartphones and newspapers or books.
"Everyone is struggling with too much screen time,” said Ludivine, a cardiology nurse, as she had her hair cut into a bob, leaving her phone out of sight in her bag. “I voted in favour, this could be a solution.”
I find it always funny, that you can read the narcissism & projection so clearly. "I have a phone addiction and I have recognised it. Now I am expecting everyone around me to restrain themself, to compensate for my lack of selfcontrol"
And it's always 'the children'. If you don't want your child to have access to a screen, don't give it one. Society isn't responsible to manage the screen time of your toddler. You are.
A 2000 people town, current trends indicate that the place is probably devoid of young people anyway. No matter what, that policy will not make young people want to live there, what a way to kill off your own town's already dwindling population
That sounds like a bonus for them
Boomer village
She said: “Recently in a waiting room, I brought books and dolls for my daughter to play with and everyone congratulated me that she wasn’t on a screen.”
...and then everyone stood up and clapped.
Getting real "Socrates on the Invention of Writing"-vibes from this.
"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. [...]"
Absurd policy. Good luck enforcing it.
Hoo boy. Nobody tell them about that new Apple computer you strap to your face and walk around in
Is that something like Google Glasses? I doubt they would care because in an augmented reality you’re still looking up at people and making eye contact, no? In which case this region will likely sell a lot of those.
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First off, the way this is discribed is an intrusion on a way of life/ peoples behaviour, and I personally feel it crosses a line.
banning adults and children from scrolling on their devices while walking down the street, while sitting with others on a park bench, while in shops, cafes or eating in restaurants and while parents wait for their children in front of the school gates. Those who might check their phone’s map when lost are instead being encouraged to ask for directions.
What should drive a discussion about digital media are the following questions:
- Why are young people and children especially drawn to digital devices?
- How does peer pressure affect parents' choices when buying a mobile device for their kids? (e.g.: children being bullied in schools for not owning a smartphone)
- Why are people becoming addicted to digital technology?
- Which design choices are developers making to make software addicting? How can we stop that from happening?
- How can an addicted person be supported? ... and probably many more that I can't think of right now
The policy doesn't address any of these. Worst case scenario it communitcates to addicted people that their behaviour is unacceptable, creating an unneccessary additional burden.
- Instant gratification
- Not cool enough for the hot new drug that is instant gratification
- Instant gratification
- Give as much instant gratification as possible
- I don't know, I am not an expert.
So people who use their phone to communicate like deaf, blind, and/or nonverbal people or those who don't speak the language and use it to translate, as well as those who need it to help ease anxiety or as a barrier between themselves and an overwhelming world (in other words - disabled and other marginalised people), can go fuck themselves, can they?
Oh wait, don't tell me, "if there arises a need an exception will be made", which is basically saying disabled and other marginalised people can go fuck themselves, unless they are willing to be stopped, forced to disclose their personal and/or medical information to strangers and be scrutinised on the spot by people without any training with the potential of being punished if said laypeople decide that actually they don't see good reason for the phone use..
Like, even without all of this the idea is a pathetic joke being enforced by power hungry control freaks, but the fact that they're happy to so openly punish and exclude marginalised people (who might stay home rather than face a world where they can't communicate, or where they might get constantly stopped and scrutinised for doing so) is just disgusting.
Fuck these people.
Important context:
It is not enforceable by police – officers could not stop or fine people scrolling in the street because there is no national law against smartphones
Municipalities can't have their own ordinances? Police only enforce national law?
I get it and I support it too, especially because it's not enforcable by police, but still changes the attitude towards screens.
For me, it reads like old people doing old people things. Let's see how it plays out.
Yeah I hope people ask themselves more frequently: "Do I really need to take out my phone now? Is it really that important?", and rather look at the birds, talk to people, just enjoy life.
Imagine, someone down voted you for your hope for people's self reflection
As always - decent idea, poor execution.
Enforcement is rarely as effective as education - and it is an issue that probably should be addressed at school or at a young age at home, that notification dopamine hits are easily abused by apps and advertisers, the dangers of walking on pavements while your head's down, and the pervasiveness of social media or always-connected information and it's impact on mental health.
After all, behaviours are better changed when you learn why it's a bad idea, rather than someone telling you it's a bad idea.
How does this work legally? The article mentions that it can't be enforced by police. And I'm sure that it's also not really in the power of local villages to ban checking a WhatsApp in a public park.
It doesn't. It's a right wing attempt to generate social friction and to get attention by focusing on rage bait topics for their prospective voters
Social pressure might be enough to enforce it.
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As an individual with Sensory Processing Disorder, Autism, and ADHD, that works in IT...
This policy is incredibly ableist.
Glad I don't live there.
"Just ask for directions"... have you ever tried asking a french person for help as a tourist? A lot of restraunts won't even serve you, even if you're speaking French.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A picture of a smartphone with a red line through it serves as a warning in the window of a hairdresser’s shop in a French village that has voted to ban people scrolling on their phones in public.
“Everyone is struggling with too much screen time,” said Ludivine, a cardiology nurse, as she had her hair cut into a bob, leaving her phone out of sight in her bag.
Seine-Port, in the Seine-et-Marne area south of Paris, with a population of fewer than 2,000 people, last weekend voted yes in a referendum to restrict smartphone use in public, banning adults and children from scrolling on their devices while walking down the street, while sitting with others on a park bench, while in shops, cafes or eating in restaurants and while parents wait for their children in front of the school gates.
The mayor, Vincent Paul-Petit, of the rightwing party Les Républicains, will now write a municipal decree on smartphone use, the first of its kind in France.
Emmanuel Macron said last month he would consult scientific experts to “determine the best use of screens” for young children, suggesting there could be bans or restrictions.
“There’s not much else to do – if you ban phones, you’d have to put in place real structures for young people’s leisure, sports and games,” said Nawel Deciron, 21, a history student and trainee teacher.
The original article contains 1,066 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Sounds like a village i'd go to and egg some houses...
I agree with this. Although I admit it is imposing one group's opinion on the whole of society (in the village at least)
I think there's something very human about a ton of people being bored, but mentally present, together. I was just thinking about how current technological advancements are creating a very easy path for us to spend less time experiencing our shared reality and increasingly recede into our own, personalized ones (think VR/AR + AI generated things). And not just media bubbles but actual experiences. Look at how detached Casey seems, and now imagine that the entire city is wearing these. VR/AR might be a fringe topic right now but if it becomes the path of least resistance for something, like living via Zoom became during COVID, it will eventually become mainstream.
It's trivial now but I think it will come to bite us in a few decades' time
Before phones I used to carry a book or a notebook with a couple of problems I was working on. Would you also ban those to force me into boredom?
Purely my opinion, but: no, because your notebook is finite. You will eventually run out of problems and also be bored.
I see where you’re going! There are a class of people like me that always overpack to prevent that from happening. If I got lost in the wilderness I would certainly eventually run out. The amount of reading material I put in my backpack is way more than I would hit in a given time out with my backpack.
I agree with your point that digital media influences and transformed the way we interact whith each others, and I believe there are studies indicating that young people feel more isolated, which could be a causality of rising smartphone usage.
And I agree, that this needs to be addressed, especially in the face of addiction. The way the french policy handles this though is to create an insentive for people to stay inside, because there they can still use their devices without being questioned or judged, further singleing those out, who already struggle in public using their phone as a lifeline.
The questions that need to be asked here is why people are so eager to use digital devices? Because they are developed in a way to make the user addicted.
That's true actually, I didn't think of that
My first thought: what about navigation? From the article:
Those who might check their phone’s map when lost are instead being encouraged to ask for directions.
Yikes. I wonder if car drivers are allowed to use their built-in satnavs while cyclists are prohibited from using OpenStreetMaps strapped to their forearm.
I would agree a lot of smartphone use is poor etiquette, but whenever I ask someone for directions they pull out their smartphone to help answer the question. My French is dysfunctional so I would be fucked in that area.
I kind of don't hate it
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this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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