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Mass Grave in Gaza Points to “Execution-Style” Killings by Israeli Forces (www.democracynow.org)
submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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More video and eyewitness info on Al Jazeera so far

Also reported on Common Dreams and Middle East Eye.

I haven't found any reports of any independent investigations yet, hopefully they are underway

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[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 88 points 10 months ago

A question for the genocide deniers that'll pop into this thread to spout their monstrous nonsense...

Can you point to a way in which the actions, policies, or rhetoric of the Israeli government meaningfully differs from those of Novemberpogrome-era (Krystalnacht-era) Nazi Germany?

This isn't pointed at any individual, so I'm not even putting you on the spot - this is an opportunity for you to bring your best answers.

[-] okamiueru@lemmy.world 49 points 10 months ago

Can you point to a way in which the actions, policies, or rhetoric of the Israeli government meaningfully differs from those of Novemberpogrome-era (Krystalnacht-era) Nazi Germany?

They spoke German.

[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Well that... that... that changes everything!

[-] Jivebunny@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Are we, ze baddies?

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 10 months ago

I have realized a while ago that there’s no point in arguing or discussing with genocide-deniers, pro-Israel and pro-zionists.

They will write the most delusional things, deny every evidence there’s and come up with the most delusional things to defend the Israeli-Government.

[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

I think they're delusional enough that there's value in giving them the space to lay that delusion out for all to see. They're one of the best arguments against themselves.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

It's all the work of Schrodinger's terrorist sniper. He's killed every Palestinian!

[-] kromem@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If you are asking for a devil's advocate argument, we could start with the fact that the Jews weren't exactly known for detaining, torturing, and mass executing their own.

Hamas in 2014 allegedly tortured and killed 23 Palestinians under the cover of the Gaza conflict then by Amnesty.

That's not the only time they've executed Palestinians for alleged "collaboration."

You also have the fact that the Jews didn't torture and kill hundreds of German civilians including women and infants to kick off a retaliation.

While I think Likud show a disguising disregard for civilian life and suspect a number of their party would like to carry out a one sided genocide, I also think the "it's the same thing as the Holocaust" is a pretty gross statement.

It's also probably prudent to not jump to conclusions in what's actually taking place during the fog of war. I strongly suspect Israel is committing war crimes under the current administration, but I also remember the 2008 Goldstone report where they were accused of doing so after not participating in the process at all and then years later the person spearheading that inquiry said that had they known at the time the information they learned since, they would have had a different position towards the Israeli operations.

Time has a way of revealing a lot of details that are lost in the moment, there's probably unprecedented propaganda on both sides of this conflict, and while we should err on the side of humanitarian concerns in directing foreign policy and negotiations, the process of investigating allegations is extremely important.

But to be frank, the knee jerk "this is identical to Nazi Germany killing the Jews" is ignorant as shit. You can't just ignore the existence of Hamas and the fact it controls the region with its own war crimes (which, as has been the case for ISIS/ISIL and al-Queda, are often directed at their own dissidents with greater scope and violence than foreigners).

[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If you're going to play devil's advocate at least know the facts. There WERE Jewish militant groups that resisted the Nazis. The oppressed are justified to fight back.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

[-] kromem@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Maybe I missed it in your link, but where's the part about the Jews murdering women and children, such as burning infants alive?

Looking at the casualties, it seems their very limited relative body count were soldiers and police, often killed in action.

Or did you miss that specification in what I wrote?

[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago

Seems like 70 years is a long time to keep a group of people under a crushing grip of apartheid. Perhaps Palestinians watching their family members bulldozed, tortured, bombed, strapped to tanks would evoke something in people?

Also are you seriously talking about the AI infant propaganda that the White House had to walk back on after no evidence was presented? Why not play devils advocate for the people that have now lost over 11K children?

[-] kromem@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Also are you seriously talking about the AI infant propaganda that the White House had to walk back on after no evidence was presented?

You seem to be confusing the specific report of beheaded infants for which there was no presented evidence with the well documented reports of infants killed and burned.

There's no dispute that infants were killed. Just whether their heads were removed from their bodies by a sharp object before they died.

Also, what the hell does it have to do with AI? You sound delusional adding that in.

[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

Citation needed. Netanyahu claimed 40 Israeli infants were burned alive and or beheaded and then shared an AI generated image of a burned infant.

https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false/

[-] kromem@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

There's nothing about AI in that article.

Are you talking about the photo Ben Shapiro shared?

An image expert said that was real and the AI detection tools that flagged it are fake have high false positives (which they do):

But Hany Farid, a professor at UC Berkeley and an expert on digital image manipulation, says the photo is not fake.

https://interestingengineering.com/culture/expert-debunks-ai-tools-claim-that-israels-photo-is-fake,

Edit: More info about the expert cited from his Wikipedia page:

Farid specializes in image analysis and human perception. He has been called the "father" of digital image forensics by NOVA scienceNOW. He is the recipient of a 2006 Guggenheim Fellowship and a 2002 Sloan Fellowship for his work in the field.

[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

Your expert in the article has no idea what that is a picture of, even if it is not AI generated. I don't trust Israel, who has a literal propaganda division to tell me. If they want they can submit evidence to a independent third party, which of course they will not.

Now please give me an independent, verified source of these 40 babies burned or decapitated. Which you ignored.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 71 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Some of the victims were blindfolded with their hands tied behind their backs with zip ties.

There were witness statements of mass executions committed by the IDF 2 weeks ago, now actual evidence is found and being shown.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

With how often we spar, I feel it's worth mentioning that I fully agree with you here. There's enough substantial evidence. This is horrific.

Between this and the IDF disguising itself as civilians and doctors to kill targets in a hospital, it's fairly clear that the organization needs to completely disband as part of any peace agreement.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 3 points 10 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

witness statements of executions recently

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 62 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The country genociding people have to make mass graves from executing civilians? Say it ain't so.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago

When people try to tell you conservatives (including neoliberals) aren't that bad, just point to this genocide.

[-] normalexit@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

It's sad, it's an atrocity, it's unsurprising.

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago

A lot of this really mirroring the Bosnian genocide which was only 25 years ago

[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Mirroring the f*cking holocaust

[-] middlemanSI@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

The fact this is still news in 2024 is beyond stupid.

[-] fastandcurious@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

This has been going on for almost 70yrs, it’s just that they have now acknowledged and embraced it as well

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago

Netanyahu wasin dire straights when this kicked off. War is good for those in power, shit is extremely reminiscent to Bush's position before 9/11. Of course it's being embraced.

[-] DdCno1@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)
[-] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

Legitimatlly surprised that number is so low. I know it was much higher back at the end of October.

[-] DdCno1@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago
[-] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

Ah I was getting my numbers mixed. There was huge support for a ground invasion of Gaza, but Netanyahu's numbers remained low.

[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Right? No human could possibly find genocide to be abhorrent - it must be the bots.

[-] Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Weren't Jews kinda murderous in their own ancient fairy tales from the bible as well?

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

This isn't about Jewish people or the Jewish faith. This is about Zionism and settler colonialism

[-] Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago

Exactly, the issue isn't thousands of years old. The Zionists started this shit in the late 1800s, when they realized they wanted a place for the Jewish people and decided on Palestine. They have been systematically destroying the Palestinian history and culture ever since. The latest destruction of schools and mosques is just another attempt to erase the past to make Palestinians look like they don't belong there and should be absorbed into the neighboring Arab countries.

Jews lived along side Arabs in Palestine and the other Arab countries. It was the Zionists deciding that they wanted a majority Jewish ethnostate and Arabs had to go to make it possible.

[-] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 6 points 10 months ago

The Jews follow the Torah, not the Bible...

[-] jzzvid 1 points 10 months ago

The Torah is part of the Bible. The semantic is not necessary. Also even Jews use term Bible or Jewish Bible when speaking about it too sometimes, including well-respected Jewish theologians.

Most people know the Bible--or rather the Old Testament--is the Tanakh, usually with a reordering of scrolls.

[-] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

This is no longer shocking.

this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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