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this contradiction always confused me. either way the official company is "losing a sale" and not getting the money, right?

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[-] henfredemars@infosec.pub 174 points 9 months ago

In theory, sharing a digital file can have a much greater impact than sharing a CD physically. Plus, you lose access to your copy of the CD if you give it to someone else. You can think of it like transferring a license for one user to a different user. There is no simultaneous usage.

I don't personally agree with this view, but I believe that's the argument.

[-] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 110 points 9 months ago

I buy disc.

I rip contents of CD to computer.

I sell disc.

[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago

DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!!

This argument is only a "gotcha" if it was permissible use, but it wasn't, even before CDs.

[-] PopShark@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

Not very fun fact: The developer from that video got arrested for cp possession

[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 9 months ago

You’re totally right, that’s not fun at all!

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[-] Nightweb@lemm.ee 5 points 9 months ago

I’m back, it’s me DP

[-] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago

I think you are referring to rules in the USA. In Canada, we have 'fair dealing' laws that would allow you to rip your CD and sell it. In part, this is already funded by a levy on blank CDs here.

[-] mhague@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

The amount of people who will duplicate their tapes and CDs would be lower than the amount of people who will duplicate their digital files.

Most of the time when a law sounds silly for banning something when alternatives exist, it's because people themselves are silly and don't actually go for the alternatives at the same rate as they would the banned thing. Ie gun accessory bans, ninja star bans.

[-] Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world 16 points 9 months ago

Where were you in the early 2000s? Lol

[-] M500@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago

I don’t know anyone who didn’t do this.

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[-] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 10 points 9 months ago

Netflix's mail service was great for data hoarders.

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[-] KpntAutismus@lemmy.world 34 points 9 months ago

which is eyactly why piracy isn't theft.

it can still be a crime, just don't call it what it obviously isn't.

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 28 points 9 months ago

It isn't piracy, either. It's filesharing.

See Richard Stallman, "Ending the War on Sharing":

When record companies make a fuss about the danger of "piracy", they're not talking about violent attacks on shipping. What they complain about is the sharing of copies of music, an activity in which millions of people participate in a spirit of cooperation. The term "piracy" is used by record companies to demonize sharing and cooperation by equating them to kidnaping, murder and theft.

[-] princessnorah 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

There are companies out there that do allow this for digital licenses. Arturia, an audio software and hardware company, lets you de-register and sell a license key to someone else, who can re-register it. They don’t charge any fees for it at all either, like some companies do. It’s not hard, most companies just don’t care about you as a customer.

Edit: Their license keys all include five seats too.

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

And that's why you don't own digital media but only a "usage license", because the original owner still has the original? Isn't it then fraudulent if the shops sell you the media, despite it being only a license? And shouldn't that be cheaper then?

Well, anyway, harr harr.

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[-] randomthin2332@lemmy.world 66 points 9 months ago

There's a few things about this

  1. Many times you don't own the digital good, you subscribe to it. No I'm not joking, that's why services can usually take it away at any time. You normally own "a licence to play it on a single PC" or similar.
  2. This isnt apples to oranges per se. Selling digital goods is fine, it's copying it. Similar to how photocopying a book and selling it would not be okay.
  3. It's important to note there is a narrative push by companies too. They spend lots of money putting videos on every DVD saying "downloading is stealing" because if society thinks piracy and stealing is the same, it helps them litigate and make more money.
  4. Your idea of a lost sale is a hard one, from a media company point of view, it's about making money. So if you can make people believe "a download is a lost sale" or "sharing a digital file is a lot sale" etc, then you can use that to sue individuals, isps, sharing sites, search engines etc and make more and more money while also having more power over your product.
[-] crossmr@kbin.social 17 points 9 months ago

if you live in the EU you own your digital purchases.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 21 points 9 months ago

It's kind of not tested though.

If you've never been given the option to download it and save it and use it from there, how would you "own" it if the streaming service takes it offline?

If you can't transfer ownership of something, or have it past the lifespan of the shop you bought it from, do you really own it? I would say not.

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[-] bouh@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

You do not. Or we have a different definition for owning.

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[-] Stern@lemmy.world 59 points 9 months ago

Because the book and disc guys couldn't figure out a way to stop you back then.

Nowadays college books have one time codes for tests, and games will sometimes have codes included for inportant unlocks to force used purchasers to pay up.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 9 months ago

I've not seen that in games for a while tbh. I think "Project Ten Dollar" died a death and was replaced with a constant barrage of micro-transactions and not so micro-transactions, sprinkled with FOMO dust.

[-] circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago

One thing to keep in mind that may be relevant: copies of non-digital things are different than digital copies.

Digital (meant here as bit-for-bit) copies are effectively impossible with analog media. If I copy a book (the whole book, its layout, etc., and not just the linguistic content), it will ultimately look like a copy, and each successive copy from that copy will look worse. This is of course true with forms of tape media and a lot of others. But it isn't true of digital media, where I could share a bit-for-bit copy of data that is absolutely identical to the original.

If it sounds like an infinite money glitch on the digital side, that's because it is. The only catch is that people have to own equipment to interpret the bits. Realistically, any form of digital media is just a record of how to set the bits on their own hardware.

Crucially: if people could resell those perfect digital copies, then there would be no market for the company which created it originally. It all comes down to the fact that companies no longer have to worry about generational differences between copies, and as a result, they're already using this "infinite money glitch" and just paying for distribution. That market goes away if people can resell digital copies, because they can also just make new copies on their own.

[-] Samsy@lemmy.ml 16 points 9 months ago

it will ultimately look like a copy, and each successive copy from that copy will look worse. This is of course true with forms of tape media and a lot of others. But it isn't true of digital media, where I could share a bit-for-bit copy of data that is absolutely identical to the original.

There is one exception: reposted memes, they are losing pixels more and more. /s

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[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

What about physical media containing digital data, e.g. a CD?

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago

It's technically illegal to make a copy of that data for yourself and then to sell the original (while keeping the copy). That obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but...

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[-] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 41 points 9 months ago

Physical media doesn't have the luxury of endlessly replicating itself via a simple copy and paste.

[-] Deckweiss@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Distributing data to everybody is the only communism that works.

Endless replication, creates endless intelectual and creative wealth and diminishes financial wealth to zero.

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[-] olivebranch@lemmy.ca 38 points 9 months ago

If they could, they would. Laws aren't passed because it makes sense, but because they benefit the rich.

[-] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 4 points 9 months ago

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread."

-Anatole France

[-] DeadNinja@lemmy.world 34 points 9 months ago

Logically yes, downloading or a sharing a digital file is a "lost sale" - but as Aaron Swartz said - "lost sales" are also caused by Earthquakes, Libraries/DVD Rentals, Negative Yelp reviews, Market Competitors, and so on. Why just blame it on file sharing...

[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 25 points 9 months ago

It's in the name. Copyright. As in, the right to make a copy.

It's perfectly legal to sell a digital good as long as you don't retain it as well.
It's illegal to make a copy of a book and then sell that copy.

From probably the most biased source possible: https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/limitations-on-a-copyright-owners-rights/first-sale-exceptions-copyright/

As they point out, most digital works are licensed, not sold, so there are terms and conditions associated with how you can use them.

So it's perfectly consistent, just grossly out of date for it's intended purpose of "make sure writers can make money selling their books without worrying that getting copies made will be pointless because someone else will undercut them and leave them with 1000 prepaid copies of their book that everyone bought cheaper".

We should have a system that preserves that original intent of "creators get compensated", without it turning into our culture gets owned by some random company for more than a lifetime.

[-] nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz 25 points 9 months ago

Legally speaking you don't own the digital files, you have a license but you don't actually own it.

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[-] axo@feddit.de 24 points 9 months ago

Its legal in the EU. You can sell your windows key for example, despite the windows eula disallowing it

[-] PPQ@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

Because companies have money, and money makes laws.

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[-] stoly@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

Both require a license and that license is revocable in both cases. It's pretty much impossible to enforce the legal use of physical media, so they don't. Rather, they go after those making copies.

If you ever want to REALLY own your media, make sure it is physical.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It's not? I see digital files being bought and sold all over the place. 3rd party key retailers and even the digital goods earned within games themselves. It's only illegal for you to copy and sell copies of digital goods. If you have a way to sell the original thing and no longer have access to it, it's perfectly legal. It's just not many things let you do that.

[-] TootSweet@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Usually, when the question is "why is copyright restrictive in these evil and/or dumb ways" the safe bet is that the the answer is "Disney."

[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago

Because they somehow don't consider that someone could have copied the books or discs before reselling them, but it immediately comes to their mind with digital copies riddled with DRMs

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this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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