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submitted 9 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/evs@lemmy.world

Akio Toyoda, Toyota Motor’s chairman, has never been a huge fan of battery electric vehicles. Last October, as global sales of EVs started to slow down amid macroeconomic uncertainty, Toyoda crowed that people are “finally seeing reality” on EVs. Now, the auto executive is doubling down on his bearish forecast, boldly predicting that just three in 10 cars on the road will be powered by a battery.

“The enemy is CO2,” Toyoda said, proposing a “multi-pathway approach” that doesn’t rely on any one type of vehicle. “Customers, not regulations or politics” should make the decision on what path to rely on, he said.

The auto executive estimated that around a billion people still live in areas without electricity, which limits the appeal of a battery electric vehicle. Toyoda estimated that fully electric cars will only capture 30% of the market, with the remainder taken up by hybrids or vehicles that use hydrogen technology.

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 90 points 9 months ago

At this point the dude is just grasping for anything that will to justify the stupid business decisions that he’s made. 30% is a shit load, and something a sane business person would be excited about trying to capture.

Before nepotism appointed him to CEO, the company launched the Prius. That thing was exciting and innovative when it came out.

Under his leadership the Prius brand became a synonym for boredom, he relinquished Toyota’s electric powertrain lead to other manufacturers, and the brand produced a lot of uninspired vehicles in general.

This guy was at the helm during the years of Toyota’s decline. Forgive me if I don’t pay any attention to him.

[-] fubarx@lemmy.ml 50 points 9 months ago
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[-] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 28 points 9 months ago

What data is being used to make this statement?

[-] sanpo@sopuli.xyz 61 points 9 months ago

I guess the data that says they spent too much money on hydrogen tech that is now unlikely to pay off.

[-] hansl@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Even if there’s no data to back it, isn’t 30% a lot?? I know plenty of markets where if you tell one of the leaders they could capture 30% of they’d be more than happy to spend billions in R&D. So just at face value the man is smoking some copium hard.

[-] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

There’s no way one company would be able to capture the entirety of that market, at best it would be like 20 brands splitting the 30% and that’s not an appealing prospect.

Really though the Toyota clan is saying this because they spent a shit ton on hydrogen vehicle tech that they want to catch on rather than electric battery tech that they neglected

[-] HAL_9_TRILLION@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 9 months ago

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills - wasn't Toyota all up in the news recently about its new battery technology that was going to revolutionize EVs? Why yes, yes it was.

[-] jballs@sh.itjust.works 8 points 9 months ago

I think they're just putting out shit trying to create FUD so people are less likely to buy EVs.

[-] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Bingo, they bet on the wrong horse, and now they try to use their market share to FUD EV's

[-] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

He's clearly aware of the "magic gas" cheat that allows infinite additional fossil fuel to be harvested from the map.

Edit: Or he's confident that Hydrogen will pick up the slack.

Hindenburg in flames

[-] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

He's still pissed their early collaboration with Tesla yielded nothing but a new competitor.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Tesla-20-years-on-EV-leader-s-rise-sparked-by-Toyota-partnership

[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago

I haven't bought an EV (or any other car) because I'm waiting for a car manufacturer to make the car I want in a plug in variant of some kind (also less telematics). Who doesn't want to be their own gas station--self sufficient with Solar, anyone?

Get your shit together, car industry. Especially you Toyota.

[-] ramble81@lemm.ee 5 points 9 months ago

You’re gonna be waiting a looong time.

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[-] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

I mean okay...I guess I'm wondering what he thinks that some how the billion people who live in areas without electricity is going to afford a new hybrid or even more expensive hydrogen vehicle that has even less infrastructure than EV's.

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IDK why hydrogen just hasn't captured any mind share. Seems like a great technology.

Someone will be along in a moment to tell me all about embrittlement and blue hydrogen, yet conglomerates are pouring many billions into water cracking infrastructure right now.

[-] mirtuevagnet@lemmy.world 31 points 9 months ago

Huge energy losses in the conversion of electricity to hydrogen. Also for passenger cars there are no clear benefits. 350kW chargers provide hundreds of kilometers of range in under 20 minutes.

In some places (like Western Australia), solar electricity is very cheap, making the inefficiencies of conversion economically viable.

The benefit is storage and transport of energy.

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[-] Grimy@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago

I've always considered hydrogen cool but ive also assumed it needs huge infrastructure changes so it can be supplied to the general population. Some EVs you can plug in an outlet and putting up charging station is super easy.

I want to get off gas yesterday and EV is simply the quickest way imo.

Sure ok, but we're building infrastructure right now.

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

Hydrogen is great on paper until you start looking into the details.

[-] Num10ck@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

hydrogen cars have to store the fuel in 70000 PSI tanks. theres only 2 stations in my major city area that sell it, and they are often unavailable due to maintenance or supply issues. if the car needs service the only place that will touch it is an hour drive away.

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[-] Nomecks@lemmy.ca 11 points 9 months ago

Put a 10,000 psi tank of hydrogen in your car, or a tank of heavy, reactive metal hydride. Also, while hydrogen isn't a greenhouse gas, releasing unburned hydrogen into the atmosphere causes more GHG to be formed. Humans are terrible at keeping unburned gasses from leaking.

[-] vzq@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago

IDK why hydrogen just hasn't captured any mind share. Seems like a great technology.

It’s great science but it’s hard technology.

It almost requires extremely high pressure or cryogenic storage and it diffuses through everything.

[-] Hypx@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Critics of hydrogen cars are repeating the same criticisms of EVs just before they took off. Same can be said of wind power or solar power. In reality, it's just the same anti-green and anti-progress BS you hear about any new green technology. It's all the same story.

[-] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Take it easy, it's a bit more complex than that. Slow as it might be, everyone understands you can charge an EV even with just a regular 15A 120V plug. Stuck at your father in laws out in the country? They've still got a plug.

Generally, people are uncomfortable with high pressure explosive gases. I think overall, hydrogen gas a better shot in industrial/heavy trucking markets than consumer transport.

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"Hydrogen will never work, there are no hydrogen gas stations in my city"

Lordy.

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[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 2 points 9 months ago

Hydrogen cars have limited performance, are overly complex and there's no infrastructure. For an average consumer they make zero sense

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[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Booooooooooooooooooooo

[-] Fleur__@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Seems fair enough. I can imagine "first world" countries having much more than a 30% ev adoption rate especially in cities. For everywhere else though alot of the infrastructure that EVs rely on (power grids, electric charging stations, specialist mechanics, hell even well maintained roads) just doesn't exist in a large enough capacity. For an international company like Toyota probably does make sense not to go all in on ev's but to have a sizable fleet of both types of vehicles for all markets.

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 4 points 9 months ago

But don't worry, they're "too big to fail". They'll get bailout after bailout until they can stand on their own again after a transition made far more painful by their foot dragging. So in the end it's the Japanese tax payer that will foot the bill.

[-] Coreidan@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Wait so you’re telling me over priced cars aren’t going to take over? Wow color me surprised.

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this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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