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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by toaster@slrpnk.net to c/asksolarpunk@slrpnk.net

For those of us in North America, we've all been to a cafe and ordered a beverage to go, only to be met with that familiar "Choose tip amount" prompt...

Then comes the dilemma: do I tip?

My gut reaction is to tip 12% and save face — "I don't want to look like a cheapskate". However, I have never been to this cafe before. Do I really need To Insure Prompt Service after filling my travel mug with joe? Yet, in the back of my head, I know that their employer is paying them as little as possible, guilting patrons like me into filling the gap in their wages.

I'd indignantly prefer to use my tips on the cafe I frequent, the baristas I know, or the times I choose to and not because I was asked. Perhaps withholding it and "voting with my money" for the business owner to pay their staff fairly instead is the best choice.

But they're underpaid.

As you can tell my monologue, I have yet to find an answer to constantly being asked to tip in situations where I would not have of my own accord.

Would you tip?

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[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago
[-] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Tipping via terminal → NEVER. Even if you get table service.

Rationale:

  1. There is a #WarOnCash underway. So even if you make the ethically absent minded decision to pay for your food electronically, the least you can do is pay the tip in cash. (the war on cash is war on privacy)
  2. Electronic tips are also subject to siphoning off by banks. When you tip by card, you also tip Visa, Mastercard, or whatever scumbag credit network is in play because their fee is a percentage of the whole transaction. The electronic transaction may be free to you but it’s not free to the business. I don’t know if the restaurant pays the whole fee and transfers 100% of the tip to the server, or if the server shares the hit. But if this is not McDonalds but some small local business, it’s better to give the full amount to the business anyway.
  3. Data protection: when you tip electronically, that creates a record not just attached to you but to the server. If you respect /their/ privacy by way of data minimization, you tip in cash.
  4. Environmental protection: banks are lousy for the environment. (ref: Banking on Climate Chaos and bank blacklist)
  5. Terminal tipping is a swindle (esp. in Europe). Tipping is not only optional in the most pure meaning of the word (not expected), but tipping amounts are lower in Europe meant purely to indicate service quality. Even a tip of €1 is a complement. But terminals suggest American proportions (e.g. 20%). It’s a scam. I think I’ve only seen this in tourist traps. The ownership is happy to make their staff happy by pushing a tip request in a way that deceives the public into thinking it’s out of their hands.. that the technology is asking for the tip. This fucked up scam is training restaurant patrons to overtip w.r.t. the culture (a culture that the locals don’t want to drift into Americanism). In the US it’s not exactly a swindle, but you have less control over the amount nonetheless. Sure most people like the math-free convenience but IMO that does not justify it. And certainly the ~15—25% amounts are excessive when there was no table service.
  6. Sometimes servers pool their tips to then tip a portion to the kitchen staff who did well enough to make the servers look good. Cash tips make that go smoothly. I was once in a rare situation where I needed to pay by card and I also wanted cash back. The server explained to me they do not give cash back because of that tip pooling that they do, saying that sometimes they do not get enough cash tips to properly treat the kitchen staff.

I think your main question is whether to tip or not. But it’s an easy snap decision to always tap NO on the terminals. In the days where you get a receipt to sign, on the tip line I would always write “cash”. (not just signal to the server but to also prevent a malicious server from turning a “0” into a “10”)

In any case, you still need to decide whether to tip at all. I would say generally: no table service + it’s pickup (not delivery)→ no tip. But as others said, case-by-case basis. Maybe there’s a partially full tip jar you can toss a dime or nickel into and staff just hears a /ping/.

[-] cerement@slrpnk.net 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

a tip is a reward AFTER the service is provided, it has nothing to do with “to insure prompt service” (that’s a bribe)

the real problem (in the US) is that employers can pay service industry workers below minimum wage with the expectation that they will make up the difference with tips which creates a manipulative workplace where the incentive is to do anything to ensure tips regardless of quality of service

and the automated “Choose tip amount” can be straight up predatory – owners will leave that option in even when there is no service provided (ex. purely retail establishments) with the expectation that you will feel guilty – and since it is not service related, that “gratuity” goes straight into the owner’s pocket, the workers will never see a penny of it

[-] jugularmalloy@slrpnk.net 2 points 9 months ago

Context makes a difference, for example as I understand it in the US people working in hospitality are not entitled to minimum wage because of the expectation that they will make up their wages with tips. In this context suggesting that you're stealing labour by not tipping is completely fair.

In the UK all legal workers are entitled to Minimum Wage, but because of the decades long housing crisis most hospitality workers are not making a living wage. Often people struggle to get the hours. If folk are getting enough hours to make a living wage, then they're probably not regularly getting the bare minimum of two consecutive days off that we need to recover from work.

In large corporate fast food restaurants like McDonalds and KFC, workers are banned from accepting tips. There are other contexts where maybe because the workers are considered low status tipping is not banned but it just doesn't happen. Have you ever tried to tip in a Wetherspoons pub? It's really hard, you put your hand in your pocket and dude's already on the next customer; they're just not expecting it.

I didn't grow up with a tipping culture. The kinds of places where people do that were not the kinds of places we went to. They were posh. I didn't grow up going to cafes, restaurants, taking cabs. So when I moved to the city and started eating out, I didn't really think about tipping, especially as I was struggling to make the bill anyway.

Then I started working in a coin operated laundry. It was interesting because you had local working class people coming in and doing their own laundry, and rich tourists and gentrifiers coming in and asking for Service Washes. A lot of the local working class people were South Asian, and I noticed that these folks would tip me even if they'd done everything themselves, just as a kindness and a sign of solidarity "get yourself a drink" they'd say. Conversely, when the American tourists came in with a big bag of washing and an even bigger list of demands, I'd work hard for them expecting a big tip, and I'd get nothing. This happened again and again. A few times a working class person who normally did their own would be short on time and ask me for a service wash, and they would regularly tip me basically 100%.

After this I started tipping way more. What I learned is that tipping is not a reward for good service, but a gesture of solidarity. It says "I know things are tough, I appreciate what you do, here is a token of that." When you tip someone, you see them, and you share a little of what you have. I love to tip people when they're in a bad mood, because it makes it abundantly clear that you are tipping someone to make their day better, not to reward them for good service, because the service probably wasn't that good!

My approach to tipping:

-Always tip cash, if not possible ask the worker discreetly if their boss gives them the digital tips. -Tip indiscriminately and regardless of service -Tip more if the workplace is particularly known for treating workers badly (e.g. Wetherspoons) -Try and tip in places like Chicken Shops where people aren't used to being tipped.

  • If you can't tip, you can donate to unions.*

*Hospitality workers often organise themselves in small radical grassroots industrial unions, where they have much more democratic control over their struggles compared to traditional trade unions.

International examples: International Workers of the World (IWW), International Workers Association (AIT-IWA) UK examples: IWGB (can't remember what it stands for), United Voices of the World (UVW).

[-] SeikoAlpinist@slrpnk.net 1 points 5 months ago

In the US: Big franchise / chain -> never ever tip. The employees are disposable and I'm not going to reward a system that makes billions while paying nothing to its employees. I'm not worried about them holding a grudge or whatever because they already can't remember me from one visit to the next, it's so impersonal and unfriendly anyway. The kids behind any counter never remember me. Even when I still gave a fuck and tipped and was cordial, they never remembered me. I guess we all look the same.

But also over the past few years I've been to fewer and fewer large franchises and they've gotten more and more aggressive.

Small restaurant -> I always tip. I grew up as an immigrant in an immigrant restaurant so I relate to these people. They also remember me, my family, and engage in small talk, ask how my parents are doing, etc.

Overseas: Restaurants/stores: never. (they almost never ask for a tip but it's starting to become common in the UK). But always carry cash on the streets because there's always somebody who needs it.

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 10 months ago

I always tip at least a dollar per drink for drinks prepared by a barista. I don't tip for retail purchases at a cafe, eg. a pastry out of the case (unless I asked for a recommendation).

Tips are to pay the service worker directly for their service. If there was no service, tip is not necessary. If there was service but you don't tip, you're stealing their labor.

It has nothing to do with being underpaid or how much you spent of whether you'll come back. Don't steal labor.

[-] toaster@slrpnk.net 2 points 10 months ago

Can you tell me more about why you consider it stealing their labour?

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 10 months ago

Because the labor is provided with the expectation of payment for it. If you buy eggs from a roadside stand, you don't just grab them and leave, you put your cash in the honor box. It's the same thing.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago

I disagree, it is clearly the owner of the shop that is stealing wages by underpaying their service staff.

The best you can do as a customer is to not shop at such places at all.

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 10 months ago

If you're wedded to the model that allows workers to sell their labor only to capital.

But I support the emergent, organic, worker-friendly pay structure that we call "tipping".

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago

Also called exploitation...

[-] toaster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago

If tipping is required in order for the worker to receive full payment for their labour, then would the employer's wages not be insufficient?

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 9 months ago

The employers pays a nominal wage (and guarantees a higher one, not that this is needed often) for the server to be present and also for light cleaning.

The bulk of a server's compensation does not come from the employer, but directly from the consumer.

Instead of consumer paying the business for the server's labor, and the business taking a cut before passing a set amount onto the server as wages; the server sells their labor directly to the consumer and gets the full amount without the business taking a cut. More of the money goes to servers under the tipping model, whole also giving more control to the consumer, while also lowering labor cost for the business. It's a win for everyone involved. I call the tipping system "emergent" because it could probably not have been designed; only evolved to be as efficient as it is.

this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2024
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