446

Women STEM students up to twice as likely as non-STEM students to have experienced sexism (www.hepi.ac.uk)

submitted 8 months ago by stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to c/technology@lemmy.world

97 comments fedilink hide all child comments

We know that women students and staff remain underrepresented in Higher Education STEM disciplines. Even in subjects where equivalent numbers of men and women participate, however, many women are still disadvantaged by everyday sexism. Our recent research found that women who study STEM subjects at undergraduate level in England were up to twice as likely as non-STEM students to have experienced sexism. The main perpetrators of this sexism were not university staff, however, but were men STEM degree students.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] WeeSheep@lemmy.world 118 points 8 months ago

The undergrad boys in STEM I swear have never met a woman aside from their mothers. No, please don't follow me home. Please don't buy me food because I was next to you in line. Please don't follow me into a store so you can buy me anything I'm purchasing. You are not invited into my conversation because you think I'm pretty, even if you just want to interrupt to tell me I'm pretty and you want to take me on a date. You are not allowed to hug me and hold me as long as you want just because you want to and it feels good for you, I didn't want a hug and I didn't know you. It isn't cute for you to take things from me and play keep away because you are stronger and taller, it makes you a bully.

Teachers: please don't ignore me when I try and participate or ask a question. I've gotten Cs with no explanation, no marks aside from the grade itself. When I check other's work, theirs is written up with mistakes and they have a higher grade. Honestly that was just one teacher in an undergrad, the rest were pretty awesome, or at least not sexist.

[-] WHARRGARBL@kbin.social 65 points 8 months ago

My CS classes were 90% male, and every professor was male, too. They all genuinely enjoyed my participation, and it was the only environment where I wasn’t objectified or disrespected. Same with my coworkers (again 90% male) when I went into the FAANG workforce; the men were happy to see women excel in a previously male-only field.

The general public was a different story until recently. Women were thrilled, a disturbing number of men refused to listen to me.

[-] Ilflish@lemm.ee 30 points 8 months ago

It probably depends on the university. There are definitely dregs of "incel" culture that get in but they can't socialize and are usually left alone. In the workforce, interviews stop them from getting much further then that.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Just like there are lots of jerks and incels, there are lots of really nice shy guys that would make the world a better place by opening up a little more. Being brave at making contact is totally acceptable, and probably good for you, if you do it in a respectful manner. Actual nice guys should drown out the jerks that are self proclaimed nice guys by treating women, men and themselves with respect.

[-] WeeSheep@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Should, yes. They don't always. And there are still far more than enough guys (and people) who do nothing when they see women (or others) treated very poorly but men/boys. I sort of understand college and high school, everyone is exploring and unsure what's ok, and observers may be entirely unsure what to do.

It's pretty common for a bunch of people to see something bad happen and everyone think someone should do something without realizing they are someone who could do something.

[-] MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 months ago

The bystander effect is really common. I remember when I got first aid training, they told us that in an emergency, you have to tell a specific person to do something rather than ask "someone call an ambulance".

I think bystander effect should be regularly discussed in schools so people will be aware of it. Getting people to automatically respond and do something and offer help is a pretty important step to making our society safer and healthier.

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

[-] Sunfoil@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

They probably haven't. My experience was a lot of these guys were on the spectrum and the only social understanding of women they have is media. I would say the sexism is very malicious from the faculty, but from fellow students a lot of them this is the first time they've been allowed away from their helicopter parents and to begin learning social skills, sadly at your detriment.

[-] WeeSheep@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Fortunately the ones who seemed socially awkward were the ones who did understand no. The majority who gave me scares were likely on the spectrum but none went too far. The ones who went too far and never respected no were definitely not on the spectrum, they were self centered and didn't pay attention to others.

There are plenty of men who act like boys because they have seen grace for their actions their whole lives. The result is that they cannot learn from their actions because they never learned how. They cannot understand when others don't let them do whatever they want, and they don't recognize consequences for their actions because they never had any. This may describe some on the spectrum but it has nothing to do with autism.

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 55 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Not to mention that gay STEM students are more likely to face homophobia. It was rampant at my uni. We could not keep any sort of gay-related posters up without them getting ripped off and trampled within hours. Which in retrospect is wild because there were so many of us, and more who came out years later. lol

[-] silverhand@reddthat.com 34 points 8 months ago

Uh.. aren't gay people the only segment likely to face homophobia? Like, you can't be homophobic to a straight person..

[-] sneezycat@sopuli.xyz 34 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Can't you? What about not having "girly" hobbies because that "makes you gay"? Or having to dress a certain way? I feel like straight people aren't excluded from homophobia...

[-] MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml 16 points 8 months ago

100%, when I was in middle school and highschool I was regularly called gay for not liking football, or not knowing random car facts, or not liking spicy food, and other stuff like that. It was much better in university, but it was in a different region so I can't compare directly.

Interestingly, one of these bullies came out as gay 10 years later, which I find sad that someone had so much internalised self hatred that he had to project it outwards to feel better about himself.

I don't know what middle/high schools are like today since I don't know anyone in that age range, but I bet it's much better now with today's internet culture being much more queer positive.

[-] yamanii@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Or much worse thanks to the redpill movement and andrew tate.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Alto@kbin.social 16 points 8 months ago

I believe they were implying in STEM vs non-STEM

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

STEM students...

[-] sir_reginald@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

I've seen people being homophobic to straight but feminine men.

Anyway, OP meant that homophobia, just like sexism, seems to be more present in STEM.

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] HerrBeter@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

"why aren't heterosexuals subject to homophobia!?!?"

(ti's a joke)

[-] WHYAREWEALLCAPS@kbin.social 53 points 8 months ago

I'm not even involved in a STEM job any longer but I still see tons of STEM employed men spewing manosphere bullshit all the time. I'm also starting to see more and more well educated, articulate women parroting it. These women also tend to be overwhelmingly conservative in their political positions, too. Especially well educated white women.

load more comments (3 replies)

[-] doylio@lemmy.ca 29 points 8 months ago

One truth about the modern media landscape: stories that pit groups against each other play well

load more comments (14 replies)

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 29 points 8 months ago

As a woman engineer, yeah we’re probably disproportionately responsible. I’m sure science and math have more sexism than say art, but biology has to treat women better than engineering I assume.

[-] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'm a guy so I realize I don't see or understand everything from women's perspective, but I'm genuinely surprised by this. I've worked for decades at companies with mostly engineers and mostly men, and my experience is that engineers have on average much more progressive views than, say, my neighbors. My current company recently switched from a male to a female CEO and I haven't even heard anyone mention her gender, much less express any negative views in connection to her gender. My previous employer also had a female CEO and it just wasn't a thing on people's mind. At my current employer we have anonymous surveys to find problems in the workplace, and there were exactly zero people who reported observing any sexist actions.

I've heard sexist remarks twice in 20 years, and both times I was so flabbergasted that I didn't know what to do or say before the conversation had already moved on. So if I'm bad at speaking up when it happens, it's only because I didn't get enough practice.

[-] silverhand@reddthat.com 9 points 8 months ago

Where I come from, the engineering fields are dominated by men but medical fields have a female majority. I wonder what's the difference with medicine

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Medicine is more aligned with the cultural idea of "what a woman should be/do". Taking care of others, showing compassion and so on is regarded as more "feminine qualities" than "masculine". Note this is not something I agree with, but I think it probably is part of the picture.

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] Wanderer@lemm.ee 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] flicker@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

This is the most "not all men" answer I could ever imagine. You literally got angry at the data, not because there's sexism, but because there are other men who exist in other places who aren't sexist.

It's well-documented that women don't go into STEM. When data explains why women don't go into STEM, getting pissy because there are men who are in other fields who aren't sexist completely misses the entire goddamned point.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

I think he may have stumbled past a interesting point (his main point was kind of dumb)-

While I would say the STEM crowd is more susceptable to a certain kind of intellectual narcissism that allows shitty behavior, anyone doing this kind of study should hopefully be making an effort to address the idea that if like 1/6 of dudes are extra shitty then are the STEM students uniquely shitty or are they just normal shitty and the classroom breakdown just means that there's like 50% more shitty dudes and half as many targets for their shittyness.

That said, I'd love to see the stats on law schools as they tend have the "bro-est bros"

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

deleted

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] xor 14 points 8 months ago

Dismissing sexism within a particular group because it is disproportionately prevalent in that group is, frankly, treating that sexism as acceptable.

You can just as easily extend this approach until you either reach a group where it's evened out, or is the entirety of humanity.

"It's more prevalent in stem? No, you have to look at university students overall"

"It's prevalent in university students overall? No, you have to look at all students"

"It's prevalent in students as a whole? No, you have to look at everyone involved in education"

"It's prevalent in education in general? No, you have to look at public services as a whole"

"It's prevalent in public services as a whole? No, you have to look at all non-private entities"

"It's prevalent across non-private entities? No, you have to look at all forms of work"

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

deleted

[-] uriel238 25 points 8 months ago

Girls suck at math (Obligatory XKCD.)

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Muffi@programming.dev 20 points 8 months ago

I studied at the Technical University of Denmark and there was so much sexism towards the women there. I was oblivious to it the first year, and then got into a friend group of primarily women. It was mind-blowing hearing their stories, and of the way that university management and leaders shut them down every time they formally brought up the issue. There was (and still is) serious cover-ups of multiple rape cases.

Don't think it's not happening just because you don't hear about it. People in power are actively trying to keep this quiet, and it's working.

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 12 points 8 months ago

STEM (both technical university and workforce) has been a cesspit of misogyny from my personal experience.

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

I'm curious if they asked the men if they'd experienced sexism too. Most stem subjects are predominantly female so this seems to be a study seeking an answer that suits a narrative.

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago

STEM is dominated by men. Especially the workforce. https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23315/. About 50% of women that take STEM majors switch to non-STEM majors, while about 35% of males switch. This is a Yale source, though.

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You're being disingenuous. The study posted relates to sexism at university where stem subjects are predominantly female.

Workforce stats /= University stats which I think you're aware.

[-] ourob@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 8 months ago

Source? The Yale link above specifically mentions:

Nationally, women make up 57.3% of bachelor’s degree recipients but only 38.6% of STEM bachelor’s degree recipients.

Anecdotally, I was in a STEM-focused school and major over 20 years ago, and it was overwhelming male-dominated. One of my colleagues graduated less than 10 years ago, and her experience was not dissimilar. She had to deal with quite a bit of sexism too, unfortunately.

load more comments (13 replies)

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

deleted

[-] blahsay@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Here you go

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/04/01/stem-jobs-see-uneven-progress-in-increasing-gender-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/

[-] mumblerfish@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

That seems to say that there is a slight over-representation of women in STEM (degrees earned) overall but only because of a single subject/job-cluster, "health-related", with a slight to very large under-representation in all others. ~~No "predominant" anywhere.~~ (well maybe health-related)

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

[-] ComfyMuffin@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

We coulda told you that without a study bruh

[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago

Comments are a shit show 🙂

load more comments

this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024

446 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

58125 readers

3912 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.

Our Rules

Follow the lemmy.world rules.
Only tech related content.
Be excellent to each another!
Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
Politics threads may be removed.
No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS