Maybe it's time for a state to start a nonprofit insurance fund? Insurance companies exist only for profit, which is antithetical to the point of insurance.
You egomaniac! Don't you ever think of the shareholders? Monster!
This doesn't address the core issue, that the math simply doesn't work in several places. Even ignoring profit, at the very least, you have to balance your payouts with your premium revenue, and if your payouts are so high that premiums must be higher than what people can afford, then you're toast.
Or you invoke government subsidies, in which case it's essentially a tax to subsidize people's poor decision making. At the end of the day, living in an area extremely prone to fires or flooding has real costs, and either somebody pays them, whether that be the individual, an insurance pool, or the government, or you simply stop incurring the cost by moving somewhere else (there's a strong argument for some amount of government assistance here)
I'm not suggesting we stop at nonprofit insurance. We can use the data so states can determine regions that are unfit for human habitation, which will become necessary due to climate change. A state-ran insurance could still have risk pools as well for matters like house and car insurance, without nonsense like charging charging more for owners of red cars.
I mean, there's no mystery here. You can literally just look at the regions that home insurers have been pulling out of to get a pretty good start. This data already exists. Collecting and processing that data is literally the primary thing that insurance companies do.
If a company whose sole purpose is extracting every bit of profit they can is deciding that insuring an area is not feasible, that probably says something. The inevitable, but obviously unpopular, answer is that there are some places where people moving there need to do so at their own risk, because it's not fair for them to throw these fundamentally unnecessary high costs on other people. Minus a small adjustment to account for how state insurance doesn't need profit and so can operate at zero margin, the structure of the insurance doesn't really make a difference here.
People moving into areas of high risk are only a tiny portion of the problem. The existing owners, and their kids, are already too much risk for a lot of places. Hundreds of thousands of retiree's already live in beach front condos that have been there for 30 years or more, and they have no way to move. There are millions more in similar places, that just have to accept whatever happens to them, because they have no resources to move, and a fixed or non existent income.
That problem is going to be the biggest one when dealing with climate change as a species. Moving hundreds of millions of people, who can't afford to move, to places that don't want them to move there. Interspersed with random natural catastrophes causing horrible loss of lives and resources.
I have always thought that the people you are talking about should be able to get insurance, maybe even at a reasonable rate, but if/when a natural disaster occurs the insurance payout should be for a property/place not in a high risk zone rather than rebuilding, and that land should then be disallowed for human habitation.
Basically a compromise of sorts. I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm wrong though, lol.
In some places that's exactly what has been done. Usually the government uses eminent domain on the land rather than allow reconstruction. The problem being the cost. Most cities and states would have nowhere near enough money to move a fraction of the homes in danger, or even pay for their relocation when they're destroyed.
While sea levels rising may be something that someone 30 years ago didn't predict, most of the other risks were well known 200 years ago.
I don't think that there is an inherent link between profit and safety, so I'm hesitant to call their data useful for determining where a place is safe to live. Maybe useful for determining risk pools, but not for determining safety. There are places that should not be habitated, but it shouldn't be determined by capital interests.
I'm not talking about raw safety. I'm referring to the situation where the average costs a resident of the area will incur due to environmental damage surpasses the amount an average person is willing to pay in insurance premiums. In these kinds of areas, insurance in inherently unworkable, regardless of profit seeking or not (again, minus a minor adjustment in margins)
In these places, you can either add in external subsidies to make the numbers work, which is bound to be unpopular with the people having to pay extra money to support people choosing to incur unnecessary costs, or you can accept that there is no workable insurance scheme in the area that and residents must take account of their own risks. There's no real way around this basic reality.
without nonsense like charging charging more for owners of red cars.
You understand that there's nothing about the paint that makes red cars more prone to claims, but rather the drivers predominately that select red cars statistically have higher claims. If you're a generally safe driver, is there a reason that you would want to subsidize someone who is statistically a less safe driver?
For a few reasons. It's not easy to determine the difference between a streak of bad luck and a bad driver. I also don't think that people should go bankrupt because of an accident, regardless of fault. I believe that people will feel more responsible if they have a sense of collective responsibility through mutual funding.
Florida, of all states, created this. There are requirements to use it, but for many it is their only real option.
Does it actually cover anything? I haven't looked into it but my knee-jerk reaction is that it's very simple and doesn't cover anything important, especially anything having to do with climate change.
Florida here. They have adequate coverage, but there are caps in some extra options or high-end tell estate. The bigger issue is that all the other instance agencies are pulling out of the state so Citizens (the state insurance) is having to cover more and more to the point that the state is just one direct hurricane hit away from insolvency.
Being from BC the basic car insurance is a non profit Provincial run scheme. All vehicles on the road need this basic insurance. They also manage rules, regulations, and other safety requirements for the Province.
Then extra coverage can be bought from the government agency or from private providers. The government is covering for all the bad drivers and then dealing with all the scammers while the private providers then cherry pick the best drivers for the extra coverage.
Insurance is expensive and there are the usual cries to make it private so it will be much cheaper!
I've lived in other Provinces where it's a private scheme. They are very expensive for new drivers, and those that have problematic issues can't afford to get insurance making it harder on those that have it and become tangled up with these uninsured drivers. This affects the good drivers eventually too. Most insurance works this way as it is.
It seems the grass is always greener...
Well some states already have that for example Citizens in FL. Everyone who buys property insurance has to pay into it to cover people who own property in places that nobody in their right mind would insure for wind. Some states only allow work comp through the state or the state competes with private insurers as well. But given the political climate in like half of states I'm not sure how you expect that will really be better. Private insurers are definitely looking for profit but when the state steps in it's not like rates are going to be dirt cheap, or if they are just just going to be paid by tax increases instead. Home and property insurance is hella expensive in some areas because it costs a lot of money to constantly rebuild people's buildings and auto insurance is hella expensive because people buy hella expensive cars then drive like fuckin maniacs, and medical costs are outrageous. If they state handles the insurance you're still gonna have to pay for your insurance and you're still gonna have to subsidizebstupid people who drive like idiots and whatnot, but you have Ron DeSantis siphoning funds instead of CEO bonuses and golden parachutes.
We have province run auto insurance in British Columbia. It isn't perfect but it works fairly well.
Only if you make it one time thing as in you get your insurance payment only if you use it to rebuild somewhere else.
You mean like a GovErmnent Insurance COmpany?
I work in insurance and it's wild how many insurance carriers have pulled out of Florida and California due to natural disasters. The market is vastly shifting to smaller carriers in these regions.
CA and FL are hit with some kind of major event what? annually? or pretty damn close to it?
can you blame them for not wanting anything to do with it?
Interesting, though: the highest insurance rates are in the midwest - Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas. No one lives there, so the risk pool is smaller than big states like CA and FL, and you can't send firefighters to divert a tornado. We'll see if that holds up to climate change, bigger CA fires, and more frequent FL hurricanes.
Not according to my FIL. Nope, he's convinced the media articles are just a lie cuz "they want the auto insurance money and the state won't let them do auto unless they do home" 🙄
I've had three insurers in four years in FL. Policy price increased each time, as well. I have no idea what's going to happen if it continues. I can't afford to keep up.
In California, you pretty much can't get fire insurance which is required by mortgages, so only corporations can even buy property here....
Idk how true that is, tho it sounds like the exact kind of thing that results from Democrats not thinking about policy downstream and just rubber stamping lobbyist bullshit, and then being blaisé about it when called out. Dems are conciliatory, reactionary with policy. They'll bend whichever way keeps them in power.
That being said if that kind of shit thought it could fly in my state I'd go pay some homie hectors from in front of home depot to throw a dozen molotovs each at town hall, the building the police union is in and the courthouses. Bonuses for the guys that actually get a structure fire roaring.
When all the avenues to redress are jammed up to the point of nonfunctioning, when, by the design of those currently winning, using the protections of our systems likely means bankruptcy; justice delayed IS justice denied
A society with no regard towards justice will fall by the hands, rightfully, of those that do.
Lessons from history show that those that enabled, protected or profiteered from that cancerous society will be seen to have aquires that cancer too.
For all our advanced tech, socially we're still medieval; societies medicine hasn't moved beyond the humors...and blood letting
So, in this scenario, the hispanic day-laborers tou hired to commit arson are the ones with regard towards justice? Or you?
I mean, you're sounding a little medieval. Humors and blood-letting? We're turning our own cells temporarily into protein factories to train our immune systems, there's vaccines for fucking cancer, and we're able to edit our genetic code to fix things like our bllod cells being the wrong shape.
You can't get it in the boonies. I live in a city and my insurance, with an earthquake rider, is only a few hundred a month. My coworker lives in sparsely populated area (by the standards of this metro area) and his insurance costs a little over 7x as much, and continues to rise.
And it's deserved too. These people move out there because they're the type that want to "own land," but then none of them maintain it. I'll go over to his house for a party and be in the backyard and everywhere I look, his property and every property it touches, as soon as you go beyond the area immediately around the house that is actually used, the entire ground is covered by kindling. One dropped cigarette and his entire neighborhood is gone.
The only two states that don't require some form of car insurance are New Hampshire and Virginia.
So I guess we're all fucked in the other states?
So Virginia is weird. You can technically drive without insurance but you have to pay a one time fee to DMV and register as uninsured. In truth though you will not likely get an auto loan without it. And good luck if you get in an accident. I'm guessing that this is a hold over for vehicles that are "farm use" or for "antique vehicles" that might need to use the roadways occasionally but don't really need expensive coverage.
You also have to pay the uninsured motor vehicle fee when you renew registration, so that comes out it $500/year or $40/mo. So you end up paying 1/3 to 1/2 of insurance and don't get any coverage.
In Va, it's not a 1 time fee, it's a $500 fee on top of your yearly registration.
But that exemption it's also going away this year in July. After that insurance will be required.
Technically you are not required to have auto insurance. The law (most states if not all?) requires “financial responsibility”. This can be achieved by filing a bond with the state instead of paying for insurance.
However, insurance is far and away the most cost effective way to meet financial responsibility requirements. The coverage is greater and the costs are much cheaper.
Or, don’t drive. Spend the money on investing in mass transit and walkable cities and then you don’t have the cost of insurance, a vehicle, maintenance, or fuel. If only it were that easy…
It isn't that easy. I would love it, but suggesting it's easy is ludicrous. It would take an incredible amount of money and time and effort and, in general, it is an effort worth making. But it won't help those of us who live well outside city limits down a country road.
Agreed, it’s not easy, and I don’t suggest it is.
I’m in a similar boat, living in a suburb in county land where the closest grocery store is 15 minutes away. There’s no chance in hell Phoenix will move away from cars in my lifetime.
My only option is to move to a city with infrastructure already built. Housing will be more, but not having the costs associated with car ownership vastly outweighs the cost of housing increases. But again, it’s not that easy.
The truth is, there is no easy answer to the rising costs. Public companies must make a profit. If there are more frequent losses and those losses are more expensive, the only thing to do is raise premiums.
Making the companies “public” like Citizens doesn’t fix things either, it just makes them susceptible to politics, which will always come back to bite.
Get hit by someone that's totally irresponsible in New Hampshire and tell me you're not fucked!
Obviously. I'm just saying- what are you supposed to do if you need insurance but no one will insure you and this is happening to huge numbers of people? I'm sure the Fuck Cars folks would tell us to just not drive. I live in a semi-rural subdivision down a country road from a four-lane highway, two miles from the nearest bus station. It was -16 this morning when I woke up.
For starters you are supposed to demand better transit. While expensive, there is no reason you can't get great transit to your sub division - and since it is great transit everyone could get rid of a car (not all cars: you keep the SUV to tow the boat!) and save money overall.
While expensive, there is no reason you can’t get great transit to your sub division
I believe the reason is in the first part of that sentence. Who's going to pay for it? We're not inside city limits. There's only a city bus. There isn't a county bus and there never has been.
I have a rider on my insurance specifically to cover additional costs incurred if I get in an accident where the other party is at fault, but has no insurance themselves. It doesn't cost that much more.... yet.
Similar problems in New Zealand, for different reasons.
Afaik earthquakes and flooding have crippled the insurance companies, nearly to the point of the entire industry threatening to quit.
I don't blame then for qutting if it's unprofitable. Maybe it'll be a wake up call to require new building codes to entice them back.
Homes can be retrofitted for earthquakes. It costs money, but if it's that serious a problem, maybe the government needs to add incentives to do it, and maybe insurers won't insure unless you have.
Work can be done to prevent flooding as well. There was a massive flood in BC Canada during a huge storm a few years ago causing billions in damage. Some of that disaster was because on the US side they wouldn't upgrade one of the anti flooding measures that impacted our side of the border.
It's going to cost an enormous amount of money, but thats the cost if having ignored the scientists for decades on climate change for many of these problems.
Here's a thought: don't live where hurricanes tend to go.
Sure, we're just going to need 50 million or so new affordable houses, and to double the trade costs of all international goods and commodities.
If you think gas is expensive now, wait till they have to move all the shipping and refining.
Yeah I mean, just argue why you shouldn't do that.
I'm sure the warming climate gives a shit.
Maybe we'll just rebuild Puerto Rico every year? Then miami. Lol.
There's a reason they say climate change will DISPLACE people.
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