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submitted 1 year ago by JRepin@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.ml

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/1874605

A 17-year-old from Nebraska and her mother are facing criminal charges including performing an illegal abortion and concealing a dead body after police obtained the pair’s private chat history from Facebook, court documents published by Motherboard show.

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[-] LeZero@lemmy.world 567 points 1 year ago

To the people shitting on the idea of a default defederation with Meta, how about we deferedate not because it will affect us as posters but because they are evil pieces of shit?

[-] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 215 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

yeah, the difference is pretty stark:

  • lemmy: we'll give you a way to dm anyone on site, but please don't use that, if you set up an app on this other open source service we're not affiliated with (which is basically an encrypted discord) we'll do our best to make it as seamless for you as possible. we'll keep warning you for your own privacy.
  • meta/facebook: aggressively keeps you on-platform for spying purposes; literally killed xmpp a decade ago and they'll fuckin do it again (if we let them)

They trust me. Dumb fucks.

- Mark Zuckerberg

(yes it sounds like satire but that's a real quote)

[-] nLuLukna@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 year ago

The Lemmy DM is imo actually quite important. If I want to get in touch with someone about a post, nothing more. It is an easy option, and serves a purpose. It isn't imo meant to be used for anything else.

[-] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 30 points 1 year ago

yep, it's important that we have this capability, but it's also nice that unlike other platforms that do their best to lock you in, lemmy actively pushes you toward a safer alternative

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[-] blue_zephyr@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

I mean I agree with Zuck on that one.

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[-] Lemmylefty@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And even if what I do is relatively tame, I want others to be protected from the wolf at the door.

[-] whofearsthenight@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

This. I don't need to win, I just want Meta to lose.

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[-] WindyRebel@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Are you saying that the individuals who run these servers and instances aren’t subject to the same laws? I read the article, and Facebook complied with a court order.

You don’t think anyone running Lemmy would do the same without access to lawyers and capital like Facebook has?

[-] LeZero@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago

Do you have to run your lemmy instance in the US?

Maybe do it in a less backward place

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[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 159 points 1 year ago

Just yesterday here on Lemmy, I mentioned the dangers of violating privacy, and some commenters went on about "what dangers?" Implying there were none...

Is it not enough to gesture broadly?

[-] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

No one has anything to hide, until they do

[-] waspentalive@lemmy.one 44 points 1 year ago

I once heard that "Anyone can be charged with a crime if they can be watched closely enough for long enough."

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[-] DrQuint@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At this point, they'll just say "yeah, but these people did a crime. I don't do crimes so I have nothing to worry about". The problem with that mentality, I would hope, doesn't need to be stated.

I stopped trying to change the world.

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[-] kevincox@lemmy.ml 154 points 1 year ago

People are getting all upset at Facebook/Meta here but they were served a valid warrant. I don't think there is much to get mad about them here. The takeaway I get is this:

Avoid giving data to others. No matter how trustworthy they are (not that Meta is) they can be legally compelled to release it. Trust only in cryptography.

There is of course the other question of if abortion being illegal is a policy that most people agree with...but that is a whole different kettle of fish that I won't get into here.

[-] PaulDevonUK@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago

Maybe just elect non fanatical nut jobs?

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[-] IllNess@infosec.pub 42 points 1 year ago

Completely right. This is an education issue.

There are several other issues how these two handled this situation.

Court and police records show that police began investigating 17-year-old Celeste Burgess and her mother Jessica Burgess after receiving a tip-off that the pair had illegally buried a stillborn child given birth to prematurely by Celeste.

Don't discuss this or involve anyone else.

The two women told detective Ben McBride of the Norfolk, Nebraska Police Division that they’d discussed the matter on Facebook Messenger, which prompted the state to issue Meta with a search warrant for their chat history and data including log-in timestamps and photos.

Why are they even talking to police? Lawyer up, even if the lawyer is free.

(E2EE is available in Messenger but has to be toggled on manually. It’s on by default in WhatsApp.)

Facebook messenger and text message is the absolute worse way to discuss things like this. They should've at least turned on E2EE but they already admitted fault and their devices would've been taken away anyway.

They seem like they together. They should've just discussed this in person.

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[-] Vaginal_blood_fart@sh.itjust.works 147 points 1 year ago

America is a terrifying church with guns. I pity the citizens.

[-] Rhabuko@feddit.de 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Every country has the anti-abortion cancer movement and it wouldn't surprise me if the shit gets more serious here in Europe too with the rise of far right parties. As a matter of fact you have only to look at Poland.

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[-] ezmack@lemmy.ml 94 points 1 year ago

Regardless of what you think about abortion laws people just gotta come to terms with the fact that your phone and computer are not reliable partners in crime

[-] whofearsthenight@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago

They should be? I mean, not just for the crime, but in general privacy should be the default.

[-] ezmack@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 year ago

I mean yeah it should but you gotta follow the old saying "don't write when you can speak, don't speak when you can nod, don't nod if you can wink" or whatever. You have an expectation of privacy when sending physical mail for example, but it's still a bad idea to put a crime in writing if you don't have to. Even if it can't legally be used as evidence it can be read. We've seen that with 'parallel construction' from law enforcement

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[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 81 points 1 year ago

Yeah, that sounds pretty on-brand for Meta

[-] kevincox@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 year ago

They are just complying with the law here. As much as I don't think Meta are great people I'd rather that they follow the law than make their own decisions. Of course we should also consider fixing these laws, but that isn't really Meta's responsibility.

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[-] Mikina@programming.dev 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm almost certain that if something like this happened to any fediverse instance - that a local police enforcement would contact the admin and asked for user's data, which they are required by law to provide or they would go to jail/get a hefty fine and possibly a criminal record, they would do that too. That's also why E2E is required, to prevent such problems for instance admins - but then again, there's really nothing you can do against local law, and if it requires that you have to be able to cooperate, well... Then there's not much the admin can do, without putting himself in a real risk of prosecution, because he is breaking the law by have E2E.

That's also a good reason to be careful when selecting your home instance, and making sure that you choose one in a country that has all right laws in that regard.

Of course, that's assuming the police makes contact. I don't suppose that the admins would be searching through the DMs of people to snitch on them. And if Meta is doing that preemtively and is actively snitching on people - that's downright evil.

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[-] Dioxy@programming.dev 71 points 1 year ago
[-] mochi@lemdit.com 65 points 1 year ago

Well, don't use Facebook to talk about doing things that are illegal. Why do people not use common sense?

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[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 56 points 1 year ago

If you have nothing to hide... but then they just change the laws, now you are a criminal and they already have handy tools in place to convict you.

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[-] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 54 points 1 year ago

"private chat history" on Facebook...

[-] Boldizzle@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago

And y'all thought China having your data was something to be afraid of.

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[-] cedarmesa@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
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[-] wtry@lemm.ee 49 points 1 year ago

Remember folks, when subverting a theocratic hellscape, use something encrypted.

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 year ago

This isn't subversion, or any sort of theocratic hellscape.

Girl could have gotten an abortion 100% legally up through 20 weeks of preganancy. At 24 weeks the fetus becomes viable outside the womb. At 28 weeks she (with the assistance of her mother) took meds to kill the fetus and induce a stillbirth, commenting that she couldn't wait to be able to wear jeans again.

She goes through natural labor to pass the stillbirth outside of any medical facility or supervision, burns the remains, and buries them on a farm. When questioned by police, she and her mother admit to using Facebook Messenger to discuss their plans.

The only thing in any way related to the romanticized fiction of some sort of downtrodden freedom seeker you're talking about is that using encrypted communications would have prevented their discussions from being available to be subpeona'd. That said, admitting to police you even had those discussions in the first place kind of defeats the damn purpose.

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[-] LuckyLu@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago
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[-] Fickle_Ferret@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 year ago

Meta needs to be destroyed. No organisation, person, or people should hold that much power.

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[-] FrankTheHealer@lemmy.ml 44 points 1 year ago

"I gUeSs IlL use ThReAdS. WhAts ThE hArM" /s

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[-] emi 42 points 1 year ago
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[-] Raphael@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When you oppose the left-wing, you're defending this.

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[-] PseudoSpock@lemmy.fmhy.ml 37 points 1 year ago

Use Signal messenger and have it set for auto deletion of messages if you must message!!!

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[-] Thorgs@feddit.de 35 points 1 year ago

Just deleted my Instagram Account for good. I have no need for any Meta App on my Phone or any other Stasi like Institution

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[-] patch1@lemmy.fmhy.ml 30 points 1 year ago

I thought messenger was end-to-end encrypted, at least according to Facebook. How were they able to hand over the chat logs? The messages should be encrypted with a key that is itself encrypted with user's password, which Facebook doesn't store.

What am I missing?

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[-] 0110101001100010@programming.dev 28 points 1 year ago

Not that facebook doesn't suck and we definitely shouldn't federate with Threads. But here's another article on this. Very late abortion where the fetus was probably viable. 17 year old was like, "I can't wait to get this thing out of me. I can finally where jeans." swallowed some pills to abort. Burned and buried the body on a farm. and the mom and daughter told the police about the facebook messages.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/10/1116716749/a-nebraska-woman-is-charged-with-helping-her-daughter-have-an-abortion

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[-] nik282000@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago

the pair’s private chat history

There is no such thing as a private chat on a platform you do not own. And even if you DO own the platform it is only as private as the participants decide it to be. Hopefully people start to realize this before complete non-privacy becomes the accepted norm.

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[-] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 25 points 1 year ago

Aside from any moral or political views, it amuses me when people do criminal acts and fail to realize police can inspect personal data like text messages, email, and social media. I think people smart enough to realize that are smart enough to avoid committing a crime in the first place. Though there are smart criminals that get away with it, you just don't hear about them because they don't get caught. In any case I tend to think being stupid is prerequisite to being a criminal.

[-] Dr_Cog@mander.xyz 29 points 1 year ago

The only crime here is the crime against humanity of taking away a person's agency over their own body

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this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
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