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[-] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 105 points 10 months ago

No, tell them how it is. The economy IS booming. That fact just doesn't have anything to do with the average Joe. Teach them 'the economy' isn't on their side.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

The Avarage Joe is suffering but the Genocide Joe is bankrolling.

Military industrial profits are going through the roof right now

[-] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Linkerbaan

The Avarage Joe is suffering but the Genocide Joe is bankrolling.

Military industrial profits are going through the roof right now

Did the propagandaists finally get the go ahead to start pedaling Genocide Joe now lmfao?

It's so pathetic.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's so annoying because Trump would be dealing the same damage in the middle east. They are the last people who should be criticizing anyone.

[-] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 10 points 10 months ago

Trump would be calling for Israel to go harder and calling them pussies for not eliminating Palestine before October 7th. Then after Israel flattens all of Gaza he’d call netanyahu strong for doing what needed to be done decades ago. They’re both awful in this issue but somehow it could be so much worse.

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[-] porksoda@lemmy.world 90 points 10 months ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the 11 million losing medicaid is due to red states choosing to "unwind" it. It's not really an economy thing so much as a deliberate asshole thing.

Everything else is spot on though.

[-] PorradaVFR@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago

Child poverty too….it was way down with recovery funding from the pandemic that conservatives gleefully killed.

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Right about the medicaid. The child poverty is similar (Democrats expanded Child Tax Credit, Republicans refused to extend it. Presumably because people like OP would make posts like this to complain about Democrats. It's brutally cynical but effective.)

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

Republicans have also been blocking an increase in the minimum wage and attempts to eliminate student debt.

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[-] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 58 points 10 months ago
[-] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

It's fun to build those in Minecraft.

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[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 58 points 10 months ago

"The Economy" = The Stock Market. Nothing else, no other metric.

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[-] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 58 points 10 months ago

I've always thought that the only meaningful measure of overall economy is real median wage. Don't talk to me about GDP or the frankly insulting per capita GDP. I can't spend money that's being hoarded by price-gouging industrialists and tech-bros.

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[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 37 points 10 months ago

Didn't the child poverty rate jump because so many had just been lifted out of it because of the expanded child tax credit? And similarly with medicaid, wasn't that because of the expanded coverage due to covid? (In other words Democrats did good things but now don't have enough seats in the Senate/Congress to keep those temporary measures permanent?)

Just seem like weird choices. "We fixed these things, Republicans broke them, the economy must be nonsense!"

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 34 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Oh it's booming. It's just not booming for you.

As George Carlin said: "it's a big club and you ain't in it!"

[-] littlebluespark@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago
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[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago

People aren't lying about their struggles or material needs not being met. Then you add the housing issues on top this. It is crazy people are still pushing forward at all.

[-] Fleamo@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The problem is people are talking past each other. People prioritize different metrics and they don't all move the same direction or for the same reasons.

GDP is increasing, unemployment is low, child poverty is back up after a temporary decrease, homelessness is increasing, people reporting as "paycheck to paycheck" is down since 2019 but clearly OP thinks the overall level is still too high. Those are all reasonable things to look at, but they have to be looked at in totality. You can't just cherry pick some factoids and indignantly declare "don't TELL me you disagree with me"

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 17 points 10 months ago

Some measures are a lot better than others.

GDP is only designed to measure the size of an economy, but how well it's serving the people who participate in it. Unemployment tells you only how many people have a "job", but it tells you nothing about whether thirst jobs pay a liveable wage or how many people are working multiple jobs to get by.

Other measures, like homelessness and child poverty, are direct measures of his of how many people are getting completely fucked by the economy.

When combining measures, I think it makes most sense to just completely ignore metrics like GDP in favor of direct measures of well-being. No matter how high the GDP is, homeless people's lives suck. No matter how low unemployment is, poor kids are still being set up for failure later in life. People living paycheck to paycheck can't use a soaring S&P 500 to pay for a medical emergency.

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

GDP is increasing due to inflation and speculation.

Unemployment is low because you aren't counting the anyone who is unemployed. The workforce participation rate is hovering around the same numbers as we had in the early 1970s when women entered the workforce in large numbers. Adding this with the gig jobs and the real numbers would be even worse.

Meanwhile housing, education, medical, insurance, food, consumer goods, and any service you can name has increased in a rate above inflation since 2020. The ratio of CEO-to-worker pay has increased as well. Everyone but the tinest fraction of the population has seen a significant hit in their quality-of-life. All the while dealing with the fallout from the virus. Plus all forms of debt have gone up.

The only good numbers are those of the stock market. Which really means very little. With interest rates so high and everyone shut out of smaller investments (you aren't going to invest in a starter home when it is costs 900k USD) of course share prices will go up. Now who benefits from this? The dividends are basically the same, the risk is basically the same, the only thing that went up is the share price. Funneling money to the people who had more money in the past. Present money taken out of the middle class to fund old money.

So there it is. The steaming garbage heap of our economy looked in total just as you requested.

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[-] dpkonofa@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago

What’s the point of this statement? Both groups of things can be true. The economy of the US, as a whole, can be booming while simultaneously having those other things be true too. The economy isn’t a measure of how individuals are doing. It’s a measure of how well the bullshit of capitalism is working. Seems to be working as intended…

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm very disappointed that nobody in the media bothers with follow up questions.

"The economy is booming!"

"For who?" For Joe 'I own a yacht' Manchin? Yeah, I'm sure it is.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-manchin-healthcare-expansion-yacht-b1931509.html

This goes back decades now with politicians on both the right and left claiming to support "middle class tax cuts" and nobody asks "how do you define 'middle class'?"

https://www.newsweek.com/tax-cuts-republicans-middle-class-trump-701094

"House Republicans issued a fact sheet about their new tax cut plan that referred to Americans earning $450,000 a year as "low- and middle-income"—even though that income level would put those taxpayers in the top 0.5 percent of all individual Americans.

The median household income in the United States is $59,039, after all."

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[-] derf82@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

I’m an avid planet money podcast listener, but a recent episode pissed me off so much. They were asking why consumer sentiment is so bad when all the economic news was good. It’s like they don’t pay attention to how most leading economic indicators are nothing more than a barometer of how rich people are doing. They expect us to be happy that inflation has slowed, even though prices are still high and it took high interest rates to do it (something that punishes poor borrowers but rewards rich investors). They expect us to be happy unemployment is low when jobs pay horribly.

[-] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Wages, especially median wages (working class wages), have surpassed inflation almost every month this year. Are you actually rooting for deflation? And thinking that would not be worse?

[-] derf82@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Some have, many haven’t. Honestly I just don’t see those numbers in reality. All throughout this, I’ve only gotten the standard 2% annual COLA. Therefore I am down around 14% in real wages. Sorry, the idea that some median wage has gone up is little comfort. I can tell you middle class engineering salaries have not moved to match inflation, at least in my area.

And, no, a little deflation would not be bad. Sure, sustained deflation could be a problem, but after such a period of high inflation, prices going back down a little would probably spur consumer spending.

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[-] Soup@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

We’re behind by decades and tens of thousands of dollars. A couple months in some jobs is fuckin’ nothing.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

"You will own nothing, and be happy."

-WEF ç 2020

Fuck that bullshit.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago

I feel like we should be able to quantify what "employed" is in the unemployment metrics.... Like, if you barely have a job and it pays you next to nothing (below a living wage) then you should be considered to be in the unemployment pool.

I think if that was the way it was counted, then the numbers would actually look atrocious.

In all actual fact, they specifically exclude people who are not actively looking for a job from the unemployment numbers. Historically this was to reduce the unemployment numbers from all the unemployed spouses that were stay at home parents or whatever. Now it's just a way to mask how many have gotten so thoroughly fucked by the system that they gave up.

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[-] dog_@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago
[-] doingless@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Just keep voting Democrat, they'll do it the next time they have the votes!

[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 23 points 10 months ago

Out of curiosity when was the last time they had the votes? 2021 was only a majority with the help of 2 Independents and a VP tiebreaker, 2007 had 49 + 2 and 1 vacancy, went down to 48.

Let's give DNC 60 seats and see what happens.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

We saw. They killed the public option.

There are always enough Manchins.

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[-] TheChurn@kbin.social 12 points 10 months ago

Last time they had 60 seats they waited until someone died so they didn't have 60 seats anymore.

[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 10 points 10 months ago

Right, I'm very forgetful I apologize, I suppose from Sept 25 2009 to February 4th they had 58 + 2 making 60, Although technically Roland Buris wasn't actually appointed to the vacant seat left by Obama until January, meaning they were filibuster proof for 2 months.

During that time very few laws were passed but the number of Public Law numbers went from 111-63 to 111-138, most of them being the appointment of new government postal buildings and a couple veteran affairs buildings, but also including mandates Human Rights that the Justice Department had to start respecting.

I feel like they could have done better with more time than that, but you've made an excellent point and I concede there.

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[-] SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Also, when your business plan relies on the government giving food stamps to your workers, you don't have a viable business plan.

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[-] dis_honestfamiliar@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

Don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting.

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[-] Mandy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago

They are right, it is booming, just not for us.

Thats a fact most people should learn, most systems, but esepcially the economy, aint working for you and me.

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's not by chance that in big countries official economic numbers are listed for the country as whole (independently of the number of people) or at best using the arithmetic average for per-capita numbers rather than the mode.

Countrywide numbers sound great until you merelly divide it by the number of people (i.e. the average, which still has problems) were for example the US falls from #1 in wealth to #15 in wealth per person.

Further, it's way too common for governing politicians in countries with strong population growth to only talk about total economic numbers, because total country GDP will grow simply from adding more working adults (due to immigration or higher birth rates) even if it's actually falling per-capita (if, for example, the working adults added have lower productivity) hence the economic position of most people is getting worse.

As for arithmetic averages, they suffer from not really representing the experience of most people when there is high inequality. For example, if there are 10 people, 1 with 10 chickens and 9 with zero chickens, that average tells us each has 1 chicken whilst in reality most people's chicken-ownership experience is of having non chickens. The mode would tell it's zero chickens because that what most individuals have.

And don't get me started on the actual ways to rig official economic figures (such as understating Official Inflation, which because of how it's produced results in a higher Official GDP number)

For at least 2 decades now, Official Economic Figures have been complete total bollocks, and you should be especially suspicious of the figures quoted by government politicians as (as I explained above) they're generally cherry-picking and presenting figures which bare little resemblance to what's happenning for most people.

[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 12 points 10 months ago

It is, though. Wealth and power are concentrating at the top of megacorporations and billionaires and bringing in record profits, just as they're supposed to under capitalism.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm guessing since gas prices are down they have to talk about real economic strife.

[-] gogogadgetfork@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

The stock market is a meat grinder

[-] beebarfbadger@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

It's not like that money is disappearing. Why are the 99% of the population it gets taken away from so selfish? Can't they just be happy for the few rich entities who profit from taking away their livelihoods, stripping them of their last shirt and draining them dry until they are bankrupt? Doesn't the promise of maybe later being trickled down upon make them happy? It's bound to happen one of these decades...

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this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
1317 points (100.0% liked)

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