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Quebec to raise university fees and mandate French for out-of-province students (www.bbc.com)

submitted 11 months ago by alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] Windows2000Srv@lemmy.ca 101 points 11 months ago

Something that people should keep in mind is that the fees were lower for those "out-of-province" students in Québec than in their own province.

This fee raise basically brings it on par with what they would pay in their on province. One of the reasoning behind this law is that Québec shouldn't be subsidizing other provinces way too expensive university system.

If you are living in Québec, university fees are quite cheap, and this doesn't change.

The French vs English aspect is widely talked about, but not a whole lot is mentioned about the actual price hike.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 11 months ago

The total fees for out of province students will still be lower than for out of province students in other provinces.

The fees for international students will still be lower than the fees for international students in other provinces.

In the only province where French is the only official language, French universities received less financing than English universities no matter the source, including from the provincial government. Donating to one's Alma Mater isn't part of the French Canadian culture for a ton of historical reasons, that leads to an university like McGill getting 200m$ from a single ex student and having over a billion sleeping in its coffers while the Université du Québec en Outaouais barely manages to offer basic services to its students.

Is it such a bad thing that the government asks that foreign students integrate themselves by learning the local language? That's an incentive for them to stay and it prevents the issue of having some of them stay without being able to speak the language, pretty much forcing them to live in one of three urban areas and their suburbs (Montreal, Gatineau, Sherbrooke).

[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 17 points 11 months ago

Imagine calling your fellow countrymen foreigners.

[-] force@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

They are foreign though, literally. They are from a different province, plus a very different culture. There isn't much that separates someone from Alberta from someone from Montana or Massachussetts in that case, other than a passport.

[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 11 points 11 months ago

So?

My neighbour is of a different culture than me, yet I don’t think of them as a foreigner.

I could cross the state border and find someone of a different culture in a different state with different laws, they’re still not a foreigner.

[-] force@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I mean you can Google the word "foreign" and the first thing that shows up is:

of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.

of or belonging to another district or area.

And Wiktionary gives:

Located outside a country or place, especially one's own.

Originating from, characteristic of, belonging to, or being a citizen of a country or place other than the one under discussion.

Most Québécois are primarily francophones, while the rest of Canada are anglophones, it checks that box. And obviously Québec is a different district/area than not Québec. And someome from outside of Québec is of course from a different place, both being a different province and a completely different sometimes almost unrecognizable culture.

Idk man seems pretty reasonable to call them "foreign" seeing as how they're from a different province. Plus "foreign" is a good catch-all word for anyone who isn't from the jurisdiction.

Also yes if you go into another state you are foreign to that state. Not foreign country-wise, but foreign state-wise.

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[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago

See there's this thing we call "a definition" and that word is appropriate to the situation and if you think "foreigner" is pejorative then you're the one who's got an issue...

[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah totally, it’s not at all a well-known derogatory term used to other people’s.

Honestly if this is how French Canadians act, I totally get the reputation. Sounds like a bunch of downright exclusionary shit cunts.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 months ago

"Oh no, French Canadians use words in their second language based on their definition, what a bunch of exclusionary shit cunts!"

You should really go sit down and reflect on the way you just acted.

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[+] Stamets@lemmy.world 36 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

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[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 26 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

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[-] stevehobbes@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

France has a whole host of laws to keep France French as well.

Quebec and Montreal are wonderful because they’re so different and yet so close.

It’s hard for me to hold a grudge against them for that. It’s not like they’re saying you must speak French to go to school there - they’re just saying you have to try to learn French if you want to go to school there.

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago

Exactly. The goal is to enable systems from out of province to better integrate the francophone society in the end.

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 12 points 11 months ago

Speaking of xenophobia, you should look in the mirror.

Quebec trying to protect its francophone cultural heritage in a whole anglophone continent with so much American cultural influences through media, music and the internet is not xenophobic. It's actually even a problem that other countries outside North America are facing.

In really sick and tired of the discrimination of Quebec and French Canadians coming from people like you who twist everything to fit their racist narrative.

The only reason you're so mad is that you can't come live a life here speaking the only language you know, English, and it pisses you off that you have to learn a second language. You simply wish the the French Canadians would finally just all fold over, speak English and the whole French Canadian culture to disappear so it could stop be an inconvenience to you. I think THAT'S pretty xenophobic, actually.

[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Je suis bilingue. Ma mère est francophone et je vis à Gatineau depuis 7 ans. Il n'y a que les francophone du Québec qui s'énervent quand je dis "bonjour hi".

[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago

Y'a personne qui s'énerve pour ça réellement.

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[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago

Pour revenir à ton commentaire, Peut-être qu'il y en a quelques uns qui vont s'énerver, mais certainement pas autant qu'il y a des anglophones ailleurs au Canada qui grimpent dans les rideaux dès qu'on mentionne le fait français au Canada et au Québec. Ce fil de discussion en est un très bel exemple.

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[-] flyboy_146@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

Oh... So lemmy is also a good place for Québec bashing... Awesome. I don't think this latest move to attempt to slow the degradation of the French language in Quebec was very wise, but you just couldn't resist pouncing on the occasion to attack big evil Quebec. Very civilized. 👌

[-] ABCDE@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Perhaps try discussing it properly?

[-] InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago

"Discuss properly" is pretty fucking rich in a thread that starts with "we hate everyone from this place".

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[-] Windows2000Srv@lemmy.ca 9 points 11 months ago

This government (CAQ) has done many xenophobic thing. Restricting access to services in foreign languages to accommodate new immigrants is probably the best example of that. But this university thing, I don't think it is. Most of the time, if you go and follow and Bachelor's degree in another country, then you have to learn the language of that country because not every class is given in English only (of course there's exceptions, but most of the time it's like that). And you have to pay a hefty premium to go and educate yourself abroad.

This situation is way different, studying at university of Toronto is 16 000$ if you are from Ontario and 17 000$ if you are from another province. So it was often cheaper for people to go and study in Québec. This fee raise doesn't have anything to do with xenophobia or anything, this is merely bring the prices to the "market value". Yes there's a bit of language protectionism, but it's not all that inconvenient, and as someone already said, just trying to learn French is probably sufficient to get around it.

In short, I agree that there is xenophobic things that happens in Québec. I agree this provincial government doesn't have a great track record on that front. But this change isn't motivated by xenophobia, but other reasons. Up to you to decide if they're valid or not in your opinion.

[-] stevehobbes@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I’ve only ever really been to Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Canadian Niagara Falls. Montreal is fun and different, Toronto is like a baby NYC, Vancouver was cool but just ok. I’d go back to Montreal before I went back to any of the other places. Except in winter.

[-] twistypencil@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

First person I've ever heard say they don't want to live in Montreal, sounds like someone from Alberta

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[-] FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social 19 points 11 months ago

All I know about Quebec is that they have several First Nations there. Why is a foreign language be mandated over those?

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 22 points 11 months ago

Foreign?

The official language in Quebec is French.

[-] GiveMemes@jlai.lu 19 points 11 months ago

I think he understands that and is calling the French colonists foreigners to the native first nations peoples...

[-] mriormro@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Yes, French is a foreign language to the Americas.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

Then so are first Nation languages since we all come from Africa.

[-] mriormro@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Lol, holy shit dude. You've lost the plot.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

Just pointing out the ridiculousness of the "it's a foreign language" argument.

There's no universities in a first Nation language and the official language in Quebec is French. I would be the first one to vote in favor of teaching kids a first Nation language, there's 11 families of them in Quebec alone so a common language is necessary and in Quebec that's French.

Members of first Nations are still free to go to school in whatever language they choose and the headline is just bad, at university level everyone can go wherever they want, it's the English universities that will lose financing if they don't get 80% of students from other provinces and out of country to reach level 5 French (out of 12 levels to be considered perfectly bilingual), that's just enough French to be able to understand an everyday conversation.

Do you consider that all other provinces do language discrimination because people can't go to university there without knowing English?

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[-] cyborganism@sh.itjust.works 12 points 11 months ago

@quinten@lemmy.world This thread has turned into a complete shit show about hate and discrimination against Québec and its francophone population. Can you please do something?

[-] lilsolar@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago

Having a discussion != hate & discrimination

[-] mriormro@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

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[-] Brkdncr@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago

French Canadians have a stereotype of being pretentious and I love it. Keep being odd Quebec.

[-] bioemerl@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago

Fuck Quebec

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Because fuck people who want an education and don't speak a particular language.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 19 points 11 months ago

They can still study in English if they want to, they just have to learn the local language.

Try to go to university in Vancouver without knowing a word of English.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Say this comment in a language spoken by a First Nation please.

[-] cyborganism@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

What doe that have to do with the topic at hand? What you're implying is nothing but a hypocrisy fallacy.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

It means that it has to do with ethnic superiority. It isn't that they are worried about the uniqueness of Quebec vanishing it means they are worried about their specific group not running things.

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[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 5 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The Canadian province of Quebec is introducing a plan that will hike tuition fees and mandate French proficiency for its out-of-province university students.

In a letter published on Thursday, Quebec's higher education minister Pascale Déry said tuition for out-of-province students would increase from C$9,000 ($6,700; £5,200) to C$12,000 a year.

The 33% rise is smaller than what the province had originally proposed in October, which was to double the tuition fees for students from the rest of Canada.

The province will also require that 80% of students from outside Quebec reach an intermediate level of French by the time they graduate, and universities would face financial penalties if that target is not met.

Mr Saini added his university had not ruled out moves like opening another campus outside of Quebec or filing a potential lawsuit.

Concordia University President Graham Carr told the Montreal Gazette that he believed the plan would lead to a drop in the number of students, and would damage Quebec's reputation.

The original article contains 429 words, the summary contains 164 words. Saved 62%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023

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