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As someone who has gone to the hospital for an overdose on caffeine, I really want to try one of these. Because, I clearly haven't learned my lesson at all.
Fucking lol
Right? I've never gone for an overdose, but I have had jangly eyeballs once or twice.
Sounds delicious.
"jangly eyeballs" is the perfect descriptor thanks
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If you've ever had a large coffee, it's like that. If you've ever had 3 large coffees and a heart condition, the same principle applies.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who keeps seeing these stories and immediately wanting to go try it.
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Panera should go ahead and put prominent warning labels on it. Call it The lemonade so charged it killed [name of latest victim]. It might double sales of the product.
Or like those worker safety counters: XX Days Since Last Lost-Life Lemonade Accident
Big Four Loko energy here.
Panera's MURDER lemonade. So good it'll kill you!! Buy one, get one on Mondays!
How much you want to bet that Heart Attack Grill is going to run with that idea.
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I don't want to sound like a dick, but I don't really think Panera is at fault here. Their lemonade is no more caffeinated than standard Starbucks venti drinks.
Dennis Brown, of Fleming Island, Florida, drank three Charged Lemonades from a local Panera on Oct. 9 and then suffered a fatal cardiac arrest on his way home, the suit says.
390mg of caffeine is a lot. But it's also commonly found in large cups of coffee. And this individual had three of them. I think Florida might want to consider ensuring mentally impaired people like Dennis Brown are better equipped to navigate a world which has leaned heavily into caffeine as a stimulant. I don't believe that Panera is some bastion of justice and good will. I'm sure their lemonade makes every attempt to "hook" members on their product with high levels of caffeine and hiding it under sugar. However, I think this lawsuit might just mean that caffeine levels should be treated like calories: we should mandate that an estimate is listed next to the beverage so those with heart problems or the health conscientious can make more informed decisions.
400mg of caffeine is the daily maximum dose recommended by several health organizations. And that's for healthy adults. Keep in mind that one charged lemonade had more caffeine than a full can of Red Bull, and a full can of Monster combined. It also contained a lot of taurine which increases the effect of caffeine.
The charged lemonade does not taste caffeinated, and there were basically no warnings about it in store. The marketing and in store branding made it seem like a sort of Gatorade, i.e. an electrolyte drink.
It was also sold next to the fruit juices and such. Which would imply less caffeine.
It was also part of the unlimited sips program, providing free refills. Drinking two or three would cause a healthy adult to start having heart palpitations, and those who are at risk would go into cardiac arrest after one (which is what happened with the first death)
Since the first death, Panera has reduced the amount of caffeine in the lemonade, and many stores have started putting it behind the counter rather than out in the open. They've also added warnings about the caffeine content of the drinks, but still don't warn about the compounding effects of taurine.
These lawsuits are likely going to be settled out of court, because Panera did fuck up here, and they also don't want the bad press of multiple deaths linked to their overly caffeinated drink.
A few corrections:
400mg of caffeine is not considered a daily recommended maximum, but "an amount not generally associated with dangerous, negative effects" (FDA). Most people can consume more than that and have no significant side effects.
The Charged Lemonade has more caffeine than most any other drinks... When you fill up a 30 oz container with it and don't add any ice. If you filled up the same container with an energy drink or coffee, it would have similar amounts of caffeine.
Aside from the possibility to associate "charged" with electrolytes, none of the marketing or branding of the drink implies that it's an electrolyte drink. Personally I would much sooner think that charged means energy, i.e. caffeine and the like, but that's just me.
A healthy adult consuming multiple of these beverages wouldn't likely experience any heart issues, but likely would have things like jitteriness and have a hard time falling asleep. And while people with heart conditions should definitely stay away from these drinks, "would go into cardiac arrest after one" is incredibly overblown. If that were the case, the deaths would be in the hundreds or thousands, not one or two.
Panera has only "reduced" the caffeine amounts in the drink by adding ice into the cup because they are now behind the counter, not by changing the formula of the drink.
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https://youtu.be/N4wW85WZMJQ this video is probably not the best source, but it outlines the fundamental issue, which is mostly that people don't expect lemonade to be caffeinated and the labeling for it, although present, doesn't highlight it at all.
Yeah I understand that. But it's definitely present on the label. I'm not saying they don't have to change anything, but I don't think they've done any less than is required. People with heart conditions should read the "fine" print (which seemed legible to me).
Maybe I should just go to a local Panera and review for myself. But that video showed the labels pretty clearly to me.
Edit that video has given me a more nuanced perspective. Placing the caffeinated lemonade in the same place as the original non-caffeinated lemonade is pretty sus. And the labelling should be more clear. Probably the largest label on the machine.
Its a really annoying video but the information seems fair.
They've caffeinated something that typically is not caffeinated though. People with conditions should be more cautious, but at some point people grow to accept that certain foods are "generally safe" for them. And lemonade sure seems like a safe-alternative if you have an issue with caffeine. Why would you think to look for caffeine in a lemonade?
Panera may not be acting maliciously - but I would say they're being pretty reckless with this product.
This is exactly what I see the issue as. I can’t have caffeine or alcohol so I normally just drink water or if I drink soda, I spend a lot of time looking for it to specifically say “caffeine free” on the label or if that doesn’t exist I look it up or just don’t bother with that drink. The “caffeine free” is rarely prominently displayed, but certain drinks I consider generally safe like lemonade, root beer and orange or lemon-lime soda. I definitely wouldn’t drink anything called “charged” but I think companies need to be more transparent about caffeine in their beverages than they are.
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Because he had high blood pressure, he did not consume energy drinks, it adds.
It explains it right there. He drank them without realizing what he was consuming because apparently it isn't obvious that it's an energy drink.
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They failed to properly set expectations. It was self-serve and publicly available, right next to other juices and teas. The expectation of customers, right or wrong, is that those sorts of products and placements mean that you can consume them at a fairly high rate.
They know their customer base, and know that their customer base regularly refills their drinks at the self-service station. They then created a drink that is unsafe to refill, as it would cause you to breach the maximum daily recommended dose.
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Caffeine defense?
Username checks out.
EDIT: That being said, I agree with you for the most part, though I would charge that am exceedingly high caffeine level such as this should be clearly labeled.
The scary part for me is that, while this gentleman lived independently, I wonder if he would have been able to make the responsible choice to limit his intake or choose another drink if he was aware of the stimulant effects. Developmental disabilities can vastly alter critical thinking of things like that.
Bummer of a situation all around.
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Dennis Brown, of Fleming Island, Florida, drank three Charged Lemonades...
Brown, 46, had an unspecified chromosomal deficiency disorder, a developmental delay and a mild intellectual disability.
Because he had high blood pressure, he did not consume energy drinks, it adds.
Can someone explain why this is Panera Bread's fault?
390mg of caffeine on the lemonade. Who ever expects lemonade to have caffeine let alone 390mg? It's fucking insane. A can of coke has 35mg and thats enough to give me anxiety, sweats and tension. If I drank that thinking it was lemonade I would be fucked at another level.
If I drank that thinking it was lemonade I would be fucked at another level.
To be fair that is frankly a ludicrous reaction for a healthy adult to have to 35mg of caffeine.
Thats not the point though, 390 mg is a lot even for a healthy adult.
On top of that, it wasn't labeled well at all. It sounds like they did not stat the caffeine content on the dispenser, but even if it did, not everybody has a good reference of how fucking much 390mg is.
It pretty much just looks like any other mundane nutrition facts. it doesn't call your attention to the amount at all or give any indication that 390mg might be high. I assumed it would be on the level of tea until I couldn't sleep at all the night after I had one (and I had it at like 2pm too, not even in the evening), and I still didn't make the connection until I later saw it in the news. I don't recall any other brand marketing using the term "charged" to indicate caffeine so I don't get people saying that everyone should understand that "charged" means caffeinated. "Spiked" and alcohol content sure, that's obvious, but "charged" is so vague.
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Because the drink was not clearly marked as being dangerous, a good article on this: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/panera-adds-warning-caffeinated-lemonade-stores-lawsuit-customers-deat-rcna122628
If you want the tldr: the "lemonade" was located next to regular drinks and "Photos ... show it was advertised as “plant-based and clean,” containing as much caffeine as the restaurant’s dark roast coffee.".
Apparently Panera's defence is that each customer should look up and read the detailed ingredient list and have enough specialized nutritional knowledge to know which dosages constitute a danger to their life.
To play devil's advocate (because I really don't care for Panera Bread or energy drinks), but...
“Because the drink was not clearly marked as being dangerous...”
It's actually NOT dangerous for healthy individuals. In the first death, the woman had a heart condition and knew it had caffeine in it, but obviously not her or Panera would know what her safe limit (if any) would be. Yet, she consumed it anyway.
In this more recent death, the man had multiple health risks, including high blood pressure, an “intellectual disability”, “blurry vision” and “ADHD” (not sure if he was also on medication for any of those).
Assuming it was self-serve, as most Panera Bread's are (I believe), he would have seen this:
Now, he many not have understood what any of that means, but he also purchased this drink “at least seven times over the course of two weeks” according to the lawsuit.
Having high blood pressure means that even the sugar would create problems for him.
He ended up drinking “3 servings”, which could be up to 2.5L (!!!) worth, which killed him. That's not a normal amount of any beverage, for any individual, in one sitting. Let alone a high sugar, high caffeine drink for someone with high blood pressure who may have also been on medication.
I guess my question would be: what else should restaurants do?
Someone with a health condition could be at risk when they overconsume on most foods that are high in one thing or another (fat, salt, sugar, caffeine, etc.)
Hell, drinking enough water in a short amount of time could kill you, so where does a restaurant's responsibility end and the individual's responsibility begin?
They are selling a drink where one serving contains 97.5% of the recommended maximum daily dosage of a stimulating substance. We (me at least) now know that that maximum daily dosage is 400mg, but I only know that now because people died and it was prominently feaurered on social media.
A borderline drink like this, should be locked away in a liquor cabinet or only be dispensed by a licensed bartender. When selling the drink, the cashier/bartender should then also warn customers of the danger of the contents and that they should not drink it if they have already consumed caffeine that day, nor should they consume any other caffeine during the rest of the day. Clearly they aren't doing any of that, it's just a container in the general food area, with some nutritional information that most people not fully comprehend.
We all constantly buy and consume stuff without fully understanding what's in it. When buying stuff in the store, I only check the sugar contents in the detailed ingredient list. When buying stuff in a takeaway, I check nothing. I'm certainly not going to sleuth on the internet to find the max dosages of each ingredient. If a drink is put out in the open like this, then I assume that it's safe.
Tbh, I'm absolutely disgusted by the victim blaming in this case. It's not that man's fault that he was not smart and him not being smart, definitely does not make this death acceptable.
Again, I'm simply playing devil's advocate here, and I'm not taking one side over the other... I'm just exploring the evidence presented.
They are selling a drink where one serving contains 97.5% of the recommended maximum daily dosage of a stimulating substance.
To clarify, they sell this drink in two sizes. One has around the same amount of caffeine as a tall coffee at Starbucks, the other (852ml size) has under 400mg.
The FDA says that most people should have no more than 400mg (assuming they are 175lbs), but that's only because it produces unwanted side effects and/or can have long term health effects at that dose.
The actual lethal limit is something like 10,000mg.
The issue is that he had multiple health conditions, which would be exacerbated by both caffeine AND sugar, but not if he consumed reasonable quantities. This is why he was able to have the same drink many times in the past without incident.
A borderline drink like this, should be locked away in a liquor cabinet or only be dispensed by a licensed bartender. When selling the drink, the cashier/bartender should then also warn customers of the danger of the contents and that they should not drink it if they have already consumed caffeine that day, nor should they consume any other caffeine during the rest of the day.
While I agree that energy drinks shouldn't be sold to minors, since they are at a higher risk of harm and likely don't have the brains to understand those risks, what you describe goes way beyond the responsibility of a restaurant.
Would you expect a coffee shop to do the same? Literally ask questions they have no business asking, any time someone orders a caffeinated beverage or shock a tray of them?
The drinks at Panera are self-serve, btw.
We all constantly buy and consume stuff without fully understanding what’s in it. When buying stuff in the store, I only check the sugar contents in the detailed ingredient list. When buying stuff in a takeaway, I check nothing. I’m certainly not going to sleuth on the internet to find the max dosages of each ingredient. If a drink is put out in the open like this, then I assume that it’s safe.
To reiterate: IT IS SAFE. People with health conditions or taking meds needs to be acutely aware of what they should and should not consume, especially if they plan to consume it in larger quantities that's considered beyond normal.
And you also point out another problem: people assume that the food they consume is "safe", but ignore any health problems they might have which could make any food unsafe.
High blood pressure, a heart condition, gluten intolerance, food allergy, food interaction with meds, etc... anyone with any of those conditions should be hyper-aware of what goes into their body. If they ignore their limits, problems happen.
If you do have to avoid a certain food, ingredient, or nutrition, it's always best to ask to find out before consuming it. Or avoid it if you're unsure.
Tbh, I’m absolutely disgusted by the victim blaming in this case. It’s not that man’s fault that he was not smart and him not being smart, definitely does not make this death acceptable.
I agree, it's a tragedy. But I don't think Panera Bread can be blamed in this case.
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Apparently Panera's defence is that each customer should look up and read the detailed ingredient list and have enough specialized nutritional knowledge to know which dosages constitute a danger to their life.
AKA the position of every libertarian ever. No big deal, just some collateral damage while the "free market" "corrects itself."
I wonder how much of that libertarian bullshit is organic and how much part of a hidden media campaign. This entire case is giving me the same vibes as that Macdonald's hot coffee case, where they successfully villified the victim.
But fortunately this is in the USA, there must be tens of thousands of lawyers salivating over this case.
They usually omit the part where the market correct itself only after you sue the shit out of them
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They never disclosed how much caffeine/sugar was in the drink till after the first death. Too much caffeine can kill you.
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Because they sell what looks and tastes like normal lemonade, without any safeguards to make sure you don't accidentally drink four times the daily recommended limit in one sitting. The signs display the caffeine content in small text next to the calories, which you and I both know that nobody who doesn't count their calories reads. It's called "charged" lemonade, in small yellow text on the green sign. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the lemonade in that lemonade dispenser is normal lemonade.
But why hold them accountable? Starbucks wouldn't be in trouble if you drank 90 oz of coffee!
Coffee obviously has caffeine, it's the kind of inseparable from the concept of it. Same goes to a lesser extent with many sodas–anyone who has to watch their caffeine likely knows that coke and doctor pepper have caffeine. But lemonade? Who sells caffeinated lemonade? I guess G-Fuel does, but someone with a heart condition probably knows not to order G-Fuel.
Lemonade is the safe choice when you don't want caffeine, because to my knowledge nobody (besides Panera bread) has ever sold caffeinated lemonade out of self-service dispensers.
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I have tachycardia and I'm supposed to avoid caffeine. But I could easily not read the fine print and drink this. Who expects caffeine in their lemonade?
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I need to get more of that fucking lemonade.
Was just there, they recently moved them behind the counter, this time they were completely gone.
This is a person who already has medical issues that put him at risk of his exact cause of death, and he knowingly endangers his own life by consuming substances - in excess - which would endanger him further. While I understand and am sympathetic to his disabilities, what I don't understand is how Panera Bread is legally responsible for this person's death.
Should Panera Bread put a warning label on its charged lemonade? Apparently, it's necessary. Should they consider lowering the dose of caffeine? Possibly. But if a person in precarious physical health due to having high blood pressure - one who know not to consume highly-caffeinated beverages - does so anyway, and in excess, to the point that it causes a heart attack, I simply cannot see how the one who sold them the caffeinated drink are to blame.
and he knowingly endangers his own life by consuming substances - in excess - which would endanger him further.
Ahh but knowingly is the key word here. See, the company put the drink right next to their regular non caffeinated drinks such a regular lemonade, had no warning labels, and offered free refills on the drinks.
So how could they reasonably have known?
390mg is pushing right up against the FDAs safety limit for daily total intake.
Now, if you saw a drink called charged lemonade next to their regular lemonade, what would you think it was? Lemonade with some extra fruits perhaps?
You certainly wouldn't think that it contains such a ridiculous level of caffeine that rides right up to the FDA safety line in a single cup, especially if they offer free refills.
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