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this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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This is a person who already has medical issues that put him at risk of his exact cause of death, and he knowingly endangers his own life by consuming substances - in excess - which would endanger him further. While I understand and am sympathetic to his disabilities, what I don't understand is how Panera Bread is legally responsible for this person's death.
Should Panera Bread put a warning label on its charged lemonade? Apparently, it's necessary. Should they consider lowering the dose of caffeine? Possibly. But if a person in precarious physical health due to having high blood pressure - one who know not to consume highly-caffeinated beverages - does so anyway, and in excess, to the point that it causes a heart attack, I simply cannot see how the one who sold them the caffeinated drink are to blame.
I'm dumbfounded that they're allowed to sell those drinks in Canada. If it's an energy drink from a store, there is a set limit of up to 180mg per container. (200mg for the little energy shot bottles.) We recall these things all the damn time for not having enough/adequate labelling.
Apparently though, caffeine can just magically tell if it comes from a restaurant or from a can, and it decides to be less harmful if you get it from doordash instead of from a convenience store. /s
Can anyone tell me how this makes sense? They cared enough to add new caffeine mandates and limits back in August of this year, but the buck apparently stops when it's a chain restaurant in question. Thanks, I hate it.
Yeah if those energy drinks require a warning label (and they usually have one, see pic), the lemonade should probably also come with one.
Want to take a guess at how much caffeine is in a large coffee?
The difference is that the normal people know that 30 oz of coffee is too much coffee, and that 30 oz of lemonade is a normal amount of lemonade
There's labels everywhere at Panera. In person and on their website.
https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/b510c87d-d4cb-45e5-8f4a-47acac526a4c.jpeg
That photo clearly shows the mg of caffeine per size of drink. What more labeling do you want?
Ahh but knowingly is the key word here. See, the company put the drink right next to their regular non caffeinated drinks such a regular lemonade, had no warning labels, and offered free refills on the drinks.
So how could they reasonably have known?
390mg is pushing right up against the FDAs safety limit for daily total intake.
Now, if you saw a drink called charged lemonade next to their regular lemonade, what would you think it was? Lemonade with some extra fruits perhaps?
You certainly wouldn't think that it contains such a ridiculous level of caffeine that rides right up to the FDA safety line in a single cup, especially if they offer free refills.
but it had a label, didn't it? one listing its contents? how is Panera Bread responsible for a person's lack of self-control?
He already knew he had high blood pressure and to avoid highly-caffeinated foods/beverages. he purchased and consumed something three times without reading the label which would have informed him of the amount of caffeine it contained. How is it Panera Bread's fault that he neglected to do that and consumed the beverage anyway?
And how many labels do you check for contents that a given food just plain does not contain? Because lemonades typically don't have any caffeine in them.
Would you check the labels of a coffee in case it has alcohol? Would you check the labels of a fruit salad incase it has meat? Would you check the label of a lemonade for dangerous levels of caffeine?
You obviously wouldn't, and as a result this could have easily fucked you up. Two cups of this, and you'd be having heart palpitations.
Because it is unreasonable to expect a lemonade to contain any caffeine, especially when the company failed to give notice of the fact.
What are you expecting him to do, read every label of literally every thing they consume, incase their packet of rice somehow contains caffeine?
Because they called it a lemonade, not a fucking energy drink, and gave no advanced notices that the item even has caffeine, let alone a borderline dangerous amount. And no, a tiny ass listing on the back of the retail cups is not enough.
Oh, and they offered and advertised free refills on a drink that they knew is crazy dangerous to consume more than a single cup of, even for healthy people.
How is any of that the fault of Panera bread? And why can’t you answer that simple question?
The amount in the lemonade was approved by the FDA, and it is every person‘s responsibility to check what they consume before they do so. The person had a pre-existing health condition, and that is not Panera bread‘s fault, either. 
You can’t just go around blaming everyone else for your own mistakes.
I did answer the question. Let me repeat incase you have trouble reading.
They called it lemonade, put it in a lineup among non caffeinated drinks (right next to their regular lemonade), put zero warning labels on and offered free refills on a drink that rode so close to the line of safe daily intakes that having two would cause serious problems even in healthy people.
They basically did everything they possibly could to hide this information. A single line in an ingredients is not sufficient warning because no reasonable consumer would check the ingredients of a lemonade for dangerous levels of caffeine.
Nope! FDA doesn't actually regulate restaurants, and Charged Lemonade isn't something that can be bought in store, only at Panera restaurants. FDA officially has no jurisdiction here:
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-industry/how-start-food-business
What you’ve done is mix fact with opinion to massively misrepresent the situation. You’re welcome to try that in a civil lawsuit, but if I’m on the jury, I would vote to dismiss the case. 
What did I mix, exactly? The only bit that is opinion was me stating they did everything they could to hide the information.
I’ve stated my case, and I find your counter argument insufficient. If you’re looking for some endless debate, you’re not gonna get one. The guy knew his health situation, drank a drink he knew better than to drink labeled charged lemonade. Panera bread is not responsible for a risk that the man took knowingly.
Sorry if that’s not good enough for you, but it’s going to have to be. Have a good night. 
Just throwing in my 2¢ here, your argument is devoid of any logic. You're assuming he knew that those drinks had caffeine, even though the source specifically states the victim intentionally avoided caffeine due to his pre-existing condition. "Charged" isn't a term that is typically used for drinks to indicate they have caffeine. Might as well call it zesty or smoky as neither of those terms imply any potential harm. It was negligent of Panera, most lawyers who have publicly commented or reviewed the claims agree that Panera will be found culpable or settle out of court. Being intentionally dense and abrasive isn't an argument.
If you don't actually have a fact based response, just say so.
Lol, good night
They've put warning labels on the lemonade now (there were none before), and have also removed it from their unlimited refills club.
They've also lowered the amount of caffeine to a somewhat safer dose.
If you're curious about this sort of thing, look up "eggshell plaintiff" - a widely accepted legal precedent addressing your argument https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull
"Knowingly" is a stretch. These self serve dispensers do not make the caffeine content obvious unless you're desperately trying to defend Panera and already know that they have caffeine