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Now that Israel just openly declares it is bombing and invading hospitals, the fog of war bullshit really doesn't matter anymore.
Maybe this one hospital strike was a rocket. What about all the other ones?
Yeah, so maybe you're right, maybe I did steal money from your purse, push grandma down the stairs when she got in my way, left the milk out over night, shit in Dad's shoes while high on meth, smoked crack in the alley, slapped all my cousins alphabetically, poured cocaine on the dog, but I swear, I didn't smoke crack in my bedroom and I don't like being accused of things I didn't do!
My understanding is this lie was used by Hamas to isolate Israel from Arab nations where much of the public was frankly horrified by the brutal violence Hamas had aimed specifically at civilians. So no, it wasn't just "the one relatively inconsequential thing," it is a lie that has had serious consequences.
Considering the fact that Israel is now bombing and invading every hospital, what difference does it make?
If this was a lie then it was only a lie by a few weeks. Israel has fulfilled every accusation that Hamas has made.
Purged by creator
The truth matters for the historical record, but it wasn't a lie like the other poster said; it was at worst a false conclusion. Instead of treating this like a reasonable mistake, though, they're cooking up conspiracy theories to assign malicious intent to what is pretty clearly just a result of the fog of war.
If it was a mistake. I'm reserving judgement until there's an actual forensic investigation and a truth-and-reconcilliation commission for Israel's crimes.
It's also a large part of why people believe everything Hamas says (e.g. death tolls) while also refusing to believe anything Israel says.
The reason people believe Gazan death tolls is that they're found to be reliable by almost every organization working in the region. And the reason most people refuse to believe what Israel says without confirmation is because they've been caught lying on multiple occasions, many times going as far as fabricating evidence (remember the Al-Shifa calendar)?
They're "found reliable", but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas' numbers; they just "confirm" them.
Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them.
Pedanticism isn't a good look.
They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas.
But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation.
No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control.
Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?
This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made.
Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails.
Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years
since Hamas took over
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This is the entire reason for the 10/7 attack. Israel is normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia and this was a planned and timed move by Hamas to try to stop that.
It did not work.
What other ones, specifically?
Lol this group is like “doesn’t matter” all of a sudden.
Wish I had the energy to go back to the old threads and reply to all the “IDF is lying” comments.
I guess you would have a point if Israel didn't routinely bomb civilians and didn't routinely lie about it.
They don't routinely lie about it. They pre-drop little fliers that say "we're about to bomb here; if you don't want to die you better leave" and then they come back in a couple of days or weeks and bomb. What on Earth would they lie about? "Wow, a bomb went off right where we dropped leaflets saying it would, but it definitely wasn't us."
The only bombing they actually did lie about is this one, where Hamas beefed a rocket launch and struck one of their own hospitals and Israel said "yeah, we were active in the zone" before anyone knew it wasn't an Israeli weapon.
I've never understood how dropping a flyer on someone's house letting them know they're going to be bombed stops Hamas. What's stopping Hamas from fleeing as soon as they see the flyer?
The only person then impacted by the bombing is the guy whose house you bombed.
They're willing to accept a lower success rate for a lower civilian casualty rate - isn't that exactly what you want?
Riiight... the genocidal mass-murderers (supposedly) wants a "lower civilian casualty rate."
Riiight.
So they just want to destroy civilian property.
There are significantly easier and less expensive ways to do that, so this seems unlikely
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"I'm going to rob your house and shoot all your family in 2 hrs okay?" I know you are innocent people that's why I told you I'll kill you in few hours /s . Wtf is this logic in first place!? It's terrorism.
Plus, so many kids and families died under these bombs and found cut up under rubbles because Israel doesn't even do that any more. Even before the war, they used to tell hospitals and huge residential buildings to evacuate in 1-2 hrs or be bombed. I can't even get up to work in 1 hr notice let alone evacuate a house or a full building.
"I'm going to rob your house and shoot all your family in 2 hrs okay?"
They're not going to rob it; they're going to fucking bomb it, to achieve a military objective in a theater of war.
It really sucks that your house is in a theater of war! It's likely to be destroyed by the army you're at war with. War has really unfortunate knock-on effects; I recommend not starting a war of extermination against your neighbors.
Plus, so many kids and families died under these bombs and found cut up under rubbles because Israel doesn't even do that any more.
They still do it; it's just that Palestinians would rather die and kill their entire families in Israeli bombing than preserve life. Palestinians believe their lives are without value unless they're dying to kill Jews.
The only explanation for why Palestinians continue to huddle under bombs they're warned are coming is that they believe human life, including their own, is valueless. It's a sick culture, a death cult, and Israel is defending itself against it.
You absolutely could evacuate your house in an hour; Israel gives weeks. The huddle under the bombs regardless because they wish to die.
They pre-drop little fliers that say “we’re about to bomb here; if you don’t want to die you better leave” and then they come back in a couple of days or weeks and bomb.
They used to do that. They aren't in this war.
No, they're still doing it. The flyers have been on social media, even.
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First it was obviously Israel that purposefully fired at the hospital and a huge deal, then it slowly changed to "doesn't matter, it's Israel's fault anyway for starting the war".
It's incredible
Younger generation totally fine with Hamas attacking civilians but angry that Israel retaliated and attacked sites that launched rockets is pretty astounding.
All up in arms that Palestinians are dying but not once asking why all the Palestinians were fine with Hamas digging tunnels and hiding military equipment in their backyards.
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You're right. The Israeli and US governments were telling the truth, for once. I bet that left a bad taste in their mouths.
Better wash out that taste by bombing some more little kids.
Who the hell cares, Israel has killed a whole lot more innocent people, including thousands of fucking children. The Israeli government is a bunch of genociders.
People seemed to care a lot when they thought it was Israel's fault.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others. And it's still a terrible thing because people died. But let's remember that this single event is a small compared to the rest of the genocide Israel is doing to Palestinians.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others.
Source?
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Because the truth and facts matter when discussing moral responsibility. It doesn't absolve Israel of other acts of war harming civilians. But this matters when discussing Hamas's responsibility over the death of Gaza civilians.
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0.5% is a terrible genocide.
I'm sorry, do we have to wait for them to finish? We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly, that they want to remove them all, make it uninhabitable where they live. That is the act of genocide, you piece of garbage.
We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly
I thought they only lied though. I guess you can always pick and choose which parts you believe.
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Don't you bother to ask what happened to 1000 misfired rockets from Gaza?
(1200 something confirmed misfires from IDF, and almost 800 something from a twitch streaming bots that were scraping al Jazeera cams etc, some independent new reports on these too). Let's just say 200 rockets, don't you wonder where they landed and what happened?
And the amount of rockets fired by anyone in Gaza is nothing compared to the sheer destruction Israel does.
No, I'm not talking about missiles from Gaza to Israel. I'm talking about Hamas missiles that fell in Gaza. Recently they have reached over 10k launches towards Israel, doesn't that make you curious to know how much destruction they caused themselves?
Israel's Iron Dome takes care of the vast majority of Hamas rockets, as almost every report out of Israel can verify.
I know, it's pretty badass to see it live.. My question was about misfired Hamas rockets that fell into Gaza. And how much destruction did that cause.
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So glad the world's #1 childkillers didn't kill these particular kids. Props to the IDF and the Israeli government for not killing these specific people for no reason.
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this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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