Israel has killed about 10 Palestinians for every Israeli killed, and about half of the Palestinians killed are children. Imagine if somebody said, "For every one of us you kill, we will kill five of your children."
"We're the good guys, murdering children is self-defense!"
The ratio for children is much much higher. It used to be around 1:30.
I am reminded of Babylon 5.
As an act of simple survival, the Narn Regime agreed to an unconditional surrender to the Centauri on December 10th, who then re-occupied the Narn homeworld with military forces and enslaved the Narn people once again. Ambassador Mollari returns to Babylon 5 to announce the terms of the surrender:
The ruling body of the Narn Regime, the Kha'Ri was to be disbanded and its members subject to arrest and prosecution for war crimes against the Centauri. An Earth Alliance request to send observers to these proceedings is denied.
To "prevent further acts of terror," the Centauri impose an edict that the penalty for the murder of any Centauri by any Narn will result in the execution of 500 Narns, including the perpetrator's entire family.
Narn and all its colonies are to become protectorates of the Centauri Republic, and as such the Republic will create a ruling government over the Narn worlds.
I know Sci-Fi is a look at modern times with a different coat of paint, but god damn.
I still think that there is a difference in intent between killing children in a bombing campaign and directly and individually targeting them in an armed raid.
I'm sure the families of the dead children are greatly comforted by a difference in intent.
Never said that nor implied it.
I mean ya did.
The intention is the same, the justification is different. You'd need to be blind to not see that.
It's not like they weren't murdering people on the ground before the raid took place. They are still doing it right now, but you'd rather not acknowledge that.
Lets be clear on one thing, both sides were killibg people long before this. No side in this conflict is innocent, no side is fighting purely for freedom, no side is right.
Still, I see a difference in a military bombardement, where civilians were warned to leave the area beforehand and a suprise raid in which civilians and children were the only targets and people were raped abducted and tortured.
If you do not see that difference (without condoning either), it is you who is blind.
Does Russia get points for telling Ukrainians to leave before they started shelling? Invaders more often than not, tell civilians to flee (least of the reasons is to inflict economic disruption to their adversary).
One side has the vast majority of resources, the other is a refugee in their own home.
So for you being a "refugee in their own home" makes it ok to deliberately murder civiluans, women and children, rape and abduct?
Analysis isn't justification. For example, the book "Lord of the Flies" doesn't try to justify the terrible nature of kids but serves as a warning when you have an incredibly young society without moral leadership. And that's about where we're at with this situation.
suprise raid in which civilians and children were the only targets and people were raped abducted and tortured.
The stupid lie that civilians were the primary target is still a lie, and is still stupid. Hamas has taken videos of it's members destroying tanks and other armored units, and stealing some of them during the raid. Before the raid Hamas got Gazans who were willing to fight to go with them too, and those radicals most likely are the ones who targeted civilians, Hamas militants may have targeted civilians too, but civilians weren't the primary target.
Still, I see a difference in a military bombardement, where civilians were warned to leave the area beforehand and a suprise raid in which civilians and children were the only targets and people were raped abducted and tortured.
So you think that this one raid is worst than the many that are carried out routinely against Palestinians? Or are we gonna just ignore those for now?
The difference is that the IDF can do these stupid things to save face, while Hamas cannot. The difference between typical terrorist groups and the IDF/whole "Israeli" government has always been their capabilities.
Ok, what's that difference.
There is a difference between a military bombardement, where civilians were warned to leave the area beforehand and a suprise raid in which civilians and children were the only targets and people were raped abducted and tortured.
Leave to where sir, everywhere they've been told to go to has subsequently been bombarded, at what point is the warning lip service?
You do understand Israel has been routinely credibly accused of deliberate targeting of civilians including women (irrelevant, a dead adult is as abborant at any other) children and the rape of both during this very conflict.
Painting in shades of shit is regardless of the shade still going to be a shitty picture.
Of course it is a shitty picture. You ask leave to where? Right question, I don't have an easy answer, as Egypt obviously won't allow them in.
Let me post a different question: What should Israel have done after the 7th? What would any other country in the world have done differently?
So it's not really that different is it drive the effect is the same.
They could defend themselves sure. Most countries would have been hammered into the stone age by everyone else is they slapped back with such disparity of force. They've killed quite literally 10 times as many civilians by current reports most of which are children and destroyed any hope of livability within Gaza. It's really not difficult math man.
I don't know, maybe literally anything that doesn't involve murdering thousands of civilians? Use your imagination. The question itself is insulting. The people calling out Israel's atrocities have no obligation to come up with policy suggestions that are acceptable to the people committing atrocities.
Urban warfare is never pretty. If Hamas cared about Palestine they'd release the remaining hostages and surrender unconditionally. But they don't. Their leaders are safe in Qatar, and their zealots care only about murdering Jews, not about the people caught in the crossfire of the inevitable Israeli counterstrikes. If they cared about their people they wouldn't use them as human shields.
And yes, if you say that Israel shouldn't attack if there's a risk of civilian casualties you need to offer up an alternative that gets Hamas to stop attacking Israeli civilians.
Shut up, genocide apologist.
Make me, terrorist supporter.
Hamas is the only thing protecting Palestinians from fucking full invasion and settlement at this point dude. Israel has admitted their intention is to push everyone out of the country and settle the land for themselves. On national tv, from high level Israeli officials.
Trade hostages for hostages to secure the safety of the hostages, as Hamas tried to do day one, two, and three. Not bomb hospitals, ever, for any reason. Not bomb refugee camps.
Of course, if they stopped the illegal occupation and settlement, and stopped murdering Palestinians every single day, stopped imprisoning them, and stopped making them live under different rules than the settlers have, it’s very unlikely they would have ever been attacked in the first place. Hamas admits this attack was an act of desperation against the completion of the Israeli settlement and cultural genocide project. It didn’t happen in a vacuum. It was the direct result of the oppression Israel forces upon the people of Palestine.
civilians and children were the only targets
This is simply not true. Hundreds of the Israeli casualties of Oct 7 were soldiers and police. Civilian witnesses/hostages from that day have stated that the Hamas attackers said they were shocked to find so few soldiers, and that they were there to fight the Israeli military and police
Yeah. Hamas didn't target children intentionally. However israel does.
Israel makes it harder every day to say "well both sides are doing bad things". And the both sides argument was already feeling pretty lacking to begin with
Ya all I'm seeing is Hamas did a bad thing over a month ago and now Israel does a bad thing every fucking day with no end in sight.
Don’t forget, they did that bad thing in response to decades of bad being done to them. Just this year before the attack, more than 1 Palestinian per day was killed by Israel.
IDF also has footage of their captured soldier going in alive. Her murdered body was found dumped near the hospital. Hamas brought her to civilian infrastructure, then murdered her, and claimed she was killed in an air strike. Kinda driving the point home that maybe “Israel killed X amount in an air strike” should be taken with a fistful of salt.
I fully expect bombing a refugee camp to have high numbers in casualties. Don't need to trust Hamas to understand that is inevitable.
It’s a refugee camp in the loosest sense of the word. It’s 80 years old, has permanent structures and is more like a crowded city than something like the Syrian refugee camps.
To drive home the concept that maybe, just maybe, we should wait until we have verification, this is the camp that Gaza’s Interior Minister (Hamas) claimed was “completely destroyed” about 3 weeks ago:
You're right of course, but I don't see how that makes any of this better. If anything, it seems you're saying we should expect the casualties to be even higher because a city is being bombed.
We should. It has been higher in the taking of every city in the middle east in the last 20 years that wasn't a NATO country.
Yes we should. It's a testament to who evacuated the place is that the casualty rates are only this bad.
Had there not been a mass evacuation, the numbers would likely be an order of magnitude higher, at least. The Gaza strip is one of the most densely-populated places on earth
True and here's hoping Biden is right to think the indiscriminate bombing has at least subsided: https://youtu.be/ECtBwO9hlTI?si=3QnNV2sopzF-lpbe
A week ago Avi Dichter, a member of the Israeli security cabinet member and agriculture minister, said in a television interview: “We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba.” Netanyahu, warned cabinet ministers the next day to choose their words carefully.
Oops, did they accidentally say the quiet part out loud?
It’s like saying MTG represents the average American.
Who's saying the Israeli government represents the average Jewish person?
MTG doesn't hold a cabinet position. By design, she represents nobody but the clucklefucks in her district. Comparing her to someone who directly works for the PM is ridiculous.
Fuck the Palestinians am I right folks?
Average lemmy.world user >!/s!<
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Underlining the reminder that there is nowhere safe for Gaza’s civilians, an airstrike outside the southern town of Khan Younis killed at least 26 people in the early hours of Saturday morning.
Last week, for the first time the Israeli military urged people to leave areas in the south, around Khan Younis town, where residents include many recently displaced from the north.
A column of medics, patients and refugees trudged out of al-Shifa hospital, the biggest in Gaza, where Israeli troops spent a fourth day searching for evidence of an underground Hamas command node.
Shelters are crammed, food and water supplies are so low the UN has warned that Palestinians face the “immediate possibility” of starvation, infectious diseases are spreading, and the war there is expected to intensify in coming days.
Early on Saturday morning, bombs hit a multi-storey block in Hamad City, a middle-class housing development in Khan Younis, killing 26 people and injuring 23 more.
Aid agencies say they are unable to provide food, water and medical care to people there because of shortages of fuel, communications problems and blocks on letting humanitarian supplies into Gaza.
The original article contains 1,172 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 84%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
They have casually done four 9/11's so far.
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