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Donald Trump has launched a fresh tirade on both the judge and his chief court clerk in his New York civil fraud trial just hours after a gag order banning him from criticising court personnel was paused.

Judge Arthur Engoron had issued the gag order in the case after the former president made a series of false and disparaging remarks about his chief clerk of court Allison Greenfield both to reporters outside the courtroom and on his Truth Social account.

Mr Trump had already violated the gag order twice and incurred $15,000 in fines as a result.

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[-] Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 184 points 2 years ago

Anyone else would be in jail.

[-] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 45 points 2 years ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

He knows he can’t win

Sure about that? He's still not in jail or officially disqualified from the presidency.

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[-] Fades@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

But he isn’t anybody else, he is the ex president. So what’s the point of saying this?

There is absolutely zero precedent for any of this

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 102 points 2 years ago

"Ex-president" aka citizen.

[-] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 65 points 2 years ago

So people in power should be held to a lower standard than the rest of us?

That's a bad fucking idea.

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 10 points 2 years ago

The Supreme Court would like a word.

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[-] dwalin@lemmy.world 42 points 2 years ago

One more reason he should serve as example. Nobody should be above the law

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago

Hes not avoiding jail cause hes an ex-president.

hes avoiding jail for being a rich white conservative.

If this was a democrat accused of doing what he'd done, they'd be in prison waiting for trial due the preponderance of evidence, or at least home arrest and a severe order against talking about this shit online.

and the blue voting public frothing if he got home arrest over jail.

Trump flouts the courts authority, and the way of law, in a way only rich white conservatives can historically get away with. To the glory and admiration of his base.

Thats the point of saying it.

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Good point, he should be held to a higher standard and his penalties doubled at a minimum

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

But he isn’t anybody else, he is the ex president. So what’s the point of saying this?

But we're not a nation of laws, we're a nation of men. So what's the point of saying this?

[-] RileyNorman@midwest.social 6 points 2 years ago

There's loads of precedent. Who his former employer was is irrelevant. If he broke a law, any law, precedent is what has happened when others have broken those same laws.

[-] Red_October@lemmy.world 115 points 2 years ago

Honestly the only surprising thing gleaned here is the notion that the gag order was actually working in the first place.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 53 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It was. The point was to protect the staff, and the less he can talk about them, the safer they were (his base have the attention span of gnats).

[-] brothershamus@kbin.social 92 points 2 years ago

But on Thursday, Associate Justice David Friedman of the state’s intermediate appeals court agreed to temporarily lift the gag order, “considering the constitutional and statutory rights at issue”.

Now, Mr Trump is able to speak freely about court staff while the longer appeals process plays out.

Justice Friedman, you done fucked up. Are you an idiot? Jesus.

[-] brothershamus@kbin.social 61 points 2 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Friedman_(judge)

Apparently he's about 73, so maybe the whole stochastic terrorism thing trump does via social media is really foreign to him. Still - perhaps some of the legal aids in his office could, y'know, asplain.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 37 points 2 years ago

"Surely, this man has some shred of human decency." —David Friedman's inner monologue

[-] AmberPrince@kbin.social 30 points 2 years ago

Narrator: He did not.

[-] HarkMahlberg@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago

Comey: " 'Will nobody rid me of this meddlesome priest?' "
Friedman: "But what do priests have to do with this?" 🤔

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 39 points 2 years ago

Maybe not. During the appeals process, the prosecution can point out exactly what happened when the appeal was temporarily lifted. It will help give the appellate judge cover when he reinstates the order.

And let's be clear, Trump wins either way. Either the appeal works, his gag order is permanently lifted, and he can continue to publicly assault the institutions trying to hold him to account. Or the gag order gets upheld, which can feed his persecution complex and the narrative that everyone is out to get him.

(I mean, there are lots of people who are out to get him, but their job is to go after criminals, and he is one....)

[-] BigMcLargeHuge@mstdn.social 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

@dhork @brothershamus

I'm sure her family will take great comfort after her death/injury knowing that the burnt orange shitgibbon was effectively, practically, given a pass on things that would put everyone else in the US under a jail.

[-] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Friedman is obviously on the take

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 70 points 2 years ago

Why was it lifted? Good behavior? The judge should reinstate it immediately.

[-] noride@lemm.ee 44 points 2 years ago

It wasn't really lifted, it was stayed by an appellate judge while Trump's appeal plays out.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago

Complicit appellate judge.

[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 14 points 2 years ago

Appellate judge.

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 62 points 2 years ago

His Ridiculous and Unconstitutional Gag Order, not allowing me to defend myself against him and his politically biased and out of control, Trump Hating Clerk

But you defend yourself in the court room, not outside of it

[-] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 years ago

That's how it's done for most people. This man has clearly lived in the court of public opinion his entire life.

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[-] deejaypanini@lemmy.world 56 points 2 years ago

Who could have predicted this? 🤯

[-] DarkGamer@kbin.social 36 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The reason Trump got so fucked in this trial was because his lawyers neglected to ask for a jury trial like he usually does, now he's actually bound by a judge who understands the law rather than jurors he can emotionally manipulate.

It seems like Trump is trying to build a case in the court of public opinion, but not a legally valid one, that this is just persecution because of personal and political reasons. And he's going to do it by making the judge hate him, in hopes that he can overturn his fuck up. I just don't think that," the judge treated me unfairly because I insulted his staff" is a very compelling argument.

Frankly, if he was anyone else he would probably be thrown in prison for contempt of court by now.

[-] Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

I think he did it on purpose, because he knew he'd loose, and now he gets a media spectacle.

[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago
[-] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
[-] quaddo@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

And lose rhymes with no-

Er.

Let me get back to you on that.

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[-] mycatiskai@lemmy.one 26 points 2 years ago

Is it time for the $100,000 fine followed by the $1 million fine

[-] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

They should inflate the fine to the same percentage that the trump family inflated the value of his assets.

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[-] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago

The American justice system, neutered by a greasy Cheeto-dusted dipshit.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Its the money. Money neuters justice and Trump is proving you can do literally everything else wrong, but with enough money, justice will pause for you. If he was smart enough to shut up when it's beneficial, he'd probably have a measurable chance to evade justice completely.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

So if the appeals court needs one reason to reinstate the gag order with a vengeance, this should be it.

[-] voracitude@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This man is not qualified for the presidency of the United States.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4591133

Page 17:

V. The persons who framed Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment regarded the President of the United States as an officer of the United States

The President of the United States was among the officials who took the oath to the Constitution that under Section Three triggered disqualification for participating in an insurrection. As noted in the previous section, the persons responsible for the Fourteenth Amendment sought to bar from present and future office all persons who betrayed their constitutional oath. “All of us understanding the meaning of the third section,” Senator John Sherman of Ohio stated, “those men who have once taken an oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States and have Fourteenth Amendment distinguished between the presidential oath mandated by Article II and violated that oath in spirit by taking up arms against the Government of the United States are to be deprived for a time at least of holding office.” No member of the Congress that drafted the the oath of office for other federal and state officers mandated by Article VI. Both were oaths to support the Constitution. Senator Garrett Davis of Kentucky saw no legal difference between the constitutional requirement that “all officers, both Federal and State, should take an oath to support” the Constitution and the constitutional requirement that the president “take an oath, to the best of his ability to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.” Senator James Doolittle of Wisconsin declared that Congress need not pass laws requiring presidents to swear to support the Constitution because that “oath is specified in the constitution.”

In fact, the exact question of whether the disqualification from public office covered the Presidency came up at the time the Fourteenth Amendment was being drafted: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/lsb/lsb10569

Specifically:

One scholar notes that the drafting history of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment suggests that the office of the President is covered:

During the debate on Section Three, one Senator asked why ex-Confederates “may be elected President or Vice President of the United States, and why did you all omit to exclude them? I do not understand them to be excluded from the privilege of holding the two highest offices in the gift of the nation.” Another Senator replied that the lack of specific language on the Presidency and Vice- Presidency was irrelevant: “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States.’”

I’ll highlight that last bit again:

Another Senator replied that the lack of specific language on the Presidency and Vice- Presidency was irrelevant: “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States.’”

That is from this paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3748639

Some people seem to have a lot of trouble with figuring out what "or" means, in a list of things.

[-] tiita@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Why is this guy not behind bars already and he's allowed to run for president is beyond me

[-] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago

You're guilty all the same

Too sick to be ashamed

You want to point your finger

But there's no one else to blame

You're guilty all the same

[-] jafo@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Trump on the stand, being fined for talking about the clerk: I wasn't talking about the clerk, I was talking about Michael Cohen. ... Gag order gets lifted. So anyway, what I was saying about the clerk...

[-] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Our courts are only showing if your white and claim to be rich they'll let you get away with anything. This is just looking like a shame to appease left leaning voters the longer it goes on.

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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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