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submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by nerdhd@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Aren't they all proper nouns and therefore supposed to not need the definite article?

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[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 35 points 3 days ago

They are titles not phrases, its correct grammar.

[-] ArseAssassin@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 days ago

If I just say Pope, how are you gonna tell if I'm talking about the pope or Alexander Pope?

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 days ago

The devil’s name isn’t “Devil.” it’s Satan or Lucifer or Beelzebub, etc. The Pope’s name isn’t “Pope.” It’s Leo XIV or Robert Francis Prevos.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The holy spirit is a funny exception, since it doesn't have an actual name, but this still feels right, even there.

The sun and moon are other examples. Historically there's no reason to have a name for them, since they're the only one. Sol gets called Sol in some contexts now, and there's Luna, but that hasn't really caught on - it's usually "Earth's moon".

You can definitely talk about Popes plural, if you don't just mean the current one.

[-] Redvenom@retrolemmy.com 10 points 3 days ago
[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

And eth Joker!

[-] YaksDC@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 days ago

In Portuguese you put the equivalent of 'the" in front of people's names. (A Michelle or O Robert)

[-] makr_alland@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

In some Catalan dialects you use a special determinate article just for people (en Robert, na Michelle), one for "common" things there could be many of (sa house, es car) and a third for things there's only one of (el Pope, la Reina).

Languages are fun!

[-] YaksDC@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago

Not when you are a monolingual American living in Portugal trying to learn Portuguese. Lol

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

Balearic Catalan has them all.

[-] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 2 points 3 days ago

Technically, "the Holy Spirit" isn't a proper noun. That's because it contains an adjective also. Personally, I wouldn't capitalize any of those terms. The head of the Catholic church only really when talking about it as a title in front of the assumed name, Pope Leo. Somebody's style guide may have them capitalize all nouns with religious notoriety. That's a style choice then rather than grammatical necessity.

Also, grammar is the attempt at formulating rules about how people talk. Meaning the talking came first and then somebody tried to codify it. That means there is virtually no grammar rule that doesn't come with at least one exception. Learning when to use an article or not, when it should be the indefinite or the definite one, is killing students who come from languages that don't use articles at all. And in some cases also those who speak other article-infested languages. That's because it doesn't make any sense and you had to grow up being corrected by other speakers to get this mostly right. It is convention more than clean cut rules.

[-] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Technically, "the Holy Spirit" isn't a proper noun.

That's the spirit.

this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2026
25 points (100.0% liked)

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