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Threadiverse Major Defederations Graph (sopuli.xyz)

submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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In the graph above I've arranged the 28 Threadiverse instances with at least 200 monthly active users (MAU)—orange instances running Lemmy, green Piefed, and red Mbin—on the basis of which instances they defederate.

Each instance has its MAU count listed below it, sourced from the latest MAU figures at Fediverse Observer, with adjustments made to the totals for Piefed (due to undercounting by outdated instances, as noted here; I used @Vicinus@piefed.zip's suggested estimate of 7,200 Piefed users) and Mbin (due to tardigram.com having a duplicate listing).

After adjustments, there are an estimated 43,287 monthly active Threadiverse users (35,184+7,200+903), of whom 87.84% are on the 28 largest instances. The percentages listed alongside the MAU figures correspond to each instance's share of the total MAU count.

Defederation data was sourced from Federation Checker. The tool doesn't support Mbin instances, so I left fedia.io in its own category. If any defederations are missing, feel free to let me know. Ideally such a chart should also include community blocks to better illustrate which instances block what, but that data doesn't appear to be as easily searchable.

I also noticed cases of some instances being listed as being defederated by another instance, despite not appearing on the defederation list for that instance (i.e. reddthat.com and lemmygrad.ml are listed as being mutually blocked, despite neither having the other on their block lists). In testing that federation, I noticed that !wholesome@reddthat.com did not federate to Lemmygrad while !memes@reddthat.com did, so clarification on that matter would be helpful.

While I'll update my generalized chart as needed to correct errors, perhaps at some point an automated federation mapping tool similar to the one feddit.de formerly hosted could be developed to more completely illustrate instance federation.

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[-] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Come to think of it:

I still remember when Lemmy was fairly new. Before $20M for the client API killed off all third-party Reddit apps, enshittifying Reddit to such a point that people left for the Threadiverse in droves in protest (and looking for something that didn't require either Reddit's Web interface or the official Reddit app). When /kbin was still experimental (as opposed to dead), when Mbin and PieFed didn't exist yet, but Lotide still did (although it was more or less a zombie).

Back then, federation was optional on Lemmy. As in, Lemmy servers weren't federated with anything by default. The admins had to manually add every single last Fediverse server, be it Lemmy, be it /kbin, be it something else, to an allowlist to allow it to federate with their server.

Lemmy servers actually had public lists of servers they federated with (as opposed to lists of servers they had defederated, available on third-party websites).

Not being federated with any given Lemmy server was the default back in the day. Most Fediverse servers were defederated from Lemmy servers because the admins of the Lemmy servers simply didn't know that they existed. If you were lucky, then the admins occasionally checked their server logs, discovered Fediverse servers that they had never heard about, checked them and then added them to the list.

It was only a while later that a new Lemmy version switched to federating by default, simply because the above was tedious and impractical.

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

As others informed me, Hexbear still uses the allowlist system. While it seems like they're pretty good about adding instances that don't defederate them to their whitelist, six instances with over 50 MAU that don't defederate them are effectively defederated from them due to not being on their whitelist.

[-] leadore@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

OK I think I get how to read this, once I understood the concept. Very nice work.

Maybe it would be a little clearer if the lines where boxes overlap were just slightly offset -- it would help see and distinguish them. For example if the blue box was moved down by just a little more than the width of the red lines, instead of being directly on top of them. If that makes sense.

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago

I'll consider doing that for the revision; thanks for the feedback!

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 days ago

Thanks for the work, really interesting graph! I think it *might be easier to read if the rectangles were ovals or some morph between rectangle and oval, so that the overlapping groupings are a bit more distinct.

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago

Thanks for the feedback; I'll try to make the groupings more distinct in the revision.

[-] brognak@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 days ago

Ok, I'll be the one to ask: What happened that 6 instances with 13% of the population combined blocked the porn instance?

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

As many instances were already blocking the original lemmynsfw.com, I suspect most do it as a means of moderating the feeds of new users who might not want to see porn. An alternative to this (as mentioned by @Cricket@lemmy.zip) would be blocking access to its communities (versus the instance itself) by default, allowing users to see replies from fedinsfw.app users and unblock the communities should they wish to. In either case, I think user retention is better served by limiting access to such content to those who are specifically interested in it.

For Multiverse and apparently Blahaj specifically, they defederate it over CP concerns due to it hosting a 'Fautbait' community.

[-] Cricket@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

An alternative to this (as mentioned by @Cricket@lemmy.zip) would be blocking its communities (versus the instance itself) by default, allowing users to see replies from fedinsfw.app users and unblock the communities should they wish to.

Hey thanks for tagging me, but let me clarify because that's not exactly what I meant. Lemmy.zip doesn't block any communities by default (as far as I can recall, at least). It blocks a couple of instances by default, and each user can remove those blocks if they wish. This is different from defederating from those instances because defederation cannot be controlled by users, only by admins.

[-] Alfredolin@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

Just registered, this is correct.

[-] Cricket@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago

Thanks for confirming.

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[-] brognak@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

Makes sense, thanks for the background!

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[-] Jayjader@jlai.lu 4 points 6 days ago

I could have sworn that hexbear defederated from jlai.lu. there was a whole spat between our instances a while back.

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[-] nanometer1625@thelemmy.club 3 points 6 days ago

This looks like a job for... The Defedestrator

[-] Ripley_Tripley@lemmus.org 4 points 6 days ago

The instance I'm in is definitely the odd ones out, we got no one here😅

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 days ago

102 monthly active users, so if I expand the limit to 100 next time it would be included. Ideally all instances would be represented, but when doing it manually in a chart like this, at some point I have to draw a line.

[-] Ripley_Tripley@lemmus.org 2 points 6 days ago

Yeah, I understand, it would be ALOT to record.

[-] nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf 2 points 6 days ago

Same

[-] MonaySimpson@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

What's the number and oercebt next to the arrows though?

[-] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The number is the number of instances within the box blocking the instance in question, whereas the percentage is the percentage of overall Threadiverse users that those instances represent. For instance, at least 64.01% of Threadiverse users (the actual figure is higher as the 12% of users on smaller instances are not accounted for) cannot access Hexbear communities or interact with Hexbear users.

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