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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social to c/bestoflemmy@lemmy.world

https://piefed.social/post/2215171/comment/12141440#comment_12141626

Many late-coming technologies are issues of concept. Slow-sand filters are incredibly simple, for example, but require an understanding that did not arise until the 19th century (some possible examples in Mesoamerica excepted). Gliders are not actually particularly difficult to acquire the materials or tools to make, especially in cultures that use kites, but require, again, an understanding of the principles involved to provide controlled flight (with gliders requiring precise balance of lift and drag, whereas kites primarily need only light weight and wind stability). Fire pistons are conceptually advanced and were not discovered in Europe until long after they were in Southeast Asia, despite some Southeast Asian cultures which produced and used fire pistons being literal stone-age cultures, in terms of available material tools.

Hot-air balloons, I would imagine, follow the same principle. If you lack the concepts behind the invention, the only way to discover it is by accident, which is generally unlikely. It’s why so much material development is concentrated in the modern and early modern period - we started to piece together how the world, on a fundamental level, works, beyond pure trial-and-error.

Also, hot-air balloons before plastics were often made of silk (and rubber), since most other materials are either too heavy (at least for practical purposes) or too thermally sensitive, and that’s an expensive experiment to be undertaking if you haven’t the first clue how it works.

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[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

In my uninformed view I came to a different conclusion. Lack of technical development until recent history is more of a problem of materials science first and easily accessible/cheap energy second.

We classify ages of humanity by advances in material science. Prehistory is noting advances in humanity using ceramics as signs of advancement. "The Bronze Age" when humanity figured out that combining copper and tin produced a metal stronger than either alone. This lead to "The Iron age" where mining and refining metal produced even stronger tools and allowed humanity to access/create even stronger/lighter/cheapers materials. Refined Aluminum was more valuable that gold (I think) when it was first discovered and isolated.

Humanity advances with better materials unlocking yet more better material.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

It may be worth pointing out that the metal ages are used primarily for old world archaeology. The Americas utilize a different system that isn't so bound to metallurgical ages.

Lithic > Ancient > Formative > Classic > Post-Classic

Each era is about mlre than material sciences, and specifically metallurgical ones, of the old world. (But let's be clear, the Bronze age is so, so much more than bronzeworking. Sometimes that gets lost in the nomenclature.)

Arguably one could apply the american measurements similarly to old world history too, since these are all approximations for coherent discourse.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 5 points 1 week ago

In the 1800s you suddenly had a middle class where farmers, small business owners, and local artisans had access to a wide variety of tools and books, things their ancestors could have never afforded.

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

In my uninformed view I came to a different conclusion.

I mean... yeaahhh?

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago

Is there a tendency to assume 'everything should have been possible in antiquity'? What is that supposed to mean?

Nonetheless:

There are plenty of examples of inventors through history with concepts and ideas that were not really practical in their time. Leonardo da Vinci's airship concept comes to mind as a well known example. Atomism is an another ancient concept across cultures east and west, which was conceptually used in the development of modern atomic theory. I think the Turks invented the steam engine based on Hellenic Greek concepts, but it was the English put it to state-level use and implementation.

So there's just a long history of technologies being adapted and improved for different purposes. Ballooning is a good example of something that has existed for many centuries in Asia. Lifting a person into the sky, instead of a message, is a newer concept that branched off an existing technology.

A great deal of technological advancements have been out of military necessity/value, such as with the balloons, but the prerequisite for innovative adaptations of technology have simply had to do with how well they were recorded and disseminated throughout populations. Militaries have been pretty good about learning a thing and getting a group to do that thing, and then recording itnfoebthe next time.

So with that in mind: Large scale education with writing and reading is a pretty late stage development. A chinese manuscript translated into English for someone who could read it occurred once every a few millenia for most of history, picked up to a few decades in the 1800s, and now that likely happens many thousands of times a day today.

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 1 points 1 week ago

Well said!

Large scale education with writing and reading is a pretty late stage development.

Correction: a weirdly recent development in Sapiens, but go for it..?

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago
[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 1 points 1 week ago

Other humans, other apes, other mammals?

What exactly are you trying to ask...?

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

Keeping the discussion exclusive to humans is typically just assumed, so to add a correction of 'Sapiens' felt a bit odd, is all.

[-] psud@aussie.zone 2 points 1 week ago

No other humans than H. Sapiens existed in history, they all went extinct prehistorically.

[-] fenrasulfr@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

In some ways I think the printing press was the most important invention ever conceived. It enabled the mass spreading of knowledge.

[-] WereHacker@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

How many times do I have to block dude?

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

About as many as that c002 dude

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 7 points 1 week ago

Explain, please..?

@slazer2au@lemmy.world, @werehacker@lemmy.ml

[-] Rothe@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

Just tankies whining.

[-] pinto@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

The same amount of days he's been here while saying he's leaving. So we're sitting on 7 days of "I'm gone for good."

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

Realistically, war is the only time a society is going to focus all it's resources on a single goal.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago

I would replace "war" with "defense," since we do a lot of shit to stay "safe."

[-] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 week ago

War is peace.

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

Yes, that's how war works.
On a tribal level, it's just survival.
On a nationalistic level?
It's legitimate-patriotism!
From there, the reinforcement of hierarchy
leads your blind horse right up to 1984.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 15 points 1 week ago

Reminds me of an interesting fact.

During WW2, the USA, with almost unlimited resources on hand, decided that pianos weren't a good use of resources. They closed down all the piano factories and used things like piano wire for aircraft control systems.

Germany, with fewer resources, kept building pianos throughout the war.

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

Watch Bakshi's American Pop sometime if you get a chance.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 2 points 1 week ago

I liked that movie, but the end almost killed me.

All those great songs throughout, and then the generations are redeemed by that piece of garbage?

I assume you're talking about the guy playing piano in the middle of a battle?

[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

Yes, he was a bit emblematic.
You're right.

[-] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

It even features a flared base..

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago

humanity needs time to mature like a dough in the fridge before you bake it.

this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2026
187 points (100.0% liked)

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