I love all trans people and all other people, unless they give me a reason not to love them. But most of all I love ~~^shots^~~ YOU!
No, no, as a fellow ~~velocirap~~ er... human being, I tell you it's ok to say you hate all men. Because it's extremely easy to prove you are not an absolute POS and therefore be an exception to the rule. You just need to be a decent human being and poof you're an exception to the rule of "I hate all men". Because that rule is referred to the majority of assholes that roam around, not to every single man without exception.
Edit: I love the amount of people angry at me because I said that the only thing a man has to do to not be in the "hated list" is to be a decent human being as if I were asking them to climb the fucking Everest barehanded.
Give me a damn break..
Hating people because of their gender is bigotry, and if you use "all" to mean "most" that is a misuse of language
You must be one of those getting offended when women pick the bear in the forest, huh?
Honestly, changing the saying to "I hate most men" is a really minor change and would cover for criticism from those asshole men. And it makes more sense for our usage.
Meh, easier to get mad at you and refuse to change because they can't possibly be making a mistake
Exactly the same as when they say "all men are dangerous" instead of "all unknown men have the potential to be dangerous"
But then less men would self-identify as assholes in the responses.
Don't worry, they will find a way to show us they are assholes. They always do.
There is real blowback to marginalized people with these shorthands, though: https://www.tumblr.com/luckyladylily/752119106260615168/so-a-few-months-ago-there-was-the-discourse-about.
In a similar manner, it's long been a consideration within black communities the ways that black men get targeted in ways unique – though particular – from black women, for being both black and male, and how purportedly generalized anxieties about men will often get triggered with frequency towards black men and then lean on racism to ensure some sort of consequence is enacted to quell that anxiety.
You must be a blast at parties. So hateful.
Is it difficult for you becoming an exception like I mentioned in my comment?
I'm deeply sorry for pointing out your prejudice.
No, no, it's fine. I'm ok with people thinking I'm a prejudiced bitch because I think decent men are an exception and not the general rule.
They're right, I understand how women are victimized. That's not an excuse to internalize bigotry and it is an issue you should work on.
This is not defending the men who do victimize women of which there are many, it's a stance against generalizations and the inbuilt prejudices they normalize in culture.
I know this argument all too well because I've heard it used too many times by racists.
Look, I don't have to work on making men become decent towards women.
As I've explained, it's extremely easy to become an exception to the present rule yet you are getting concerned about me hating the whole male collective because I said that all you need to do to not be hated is simply being a decent human being.
Do you think it's hard for the men collective to achieve the goal of being decent human beings and that's why you are so concerned?
You don't have to work on that, but you do have to work on yourself. What you said is an example of internalised misogyny, and it is part of the problem.
I'm very sorry for the actions of some men, but neither of us can control that. What we can control is how we react to it.
It's not the fact that you're saying men should change; it's the fact that you're generalising.
By saying that all men are evil, you're letting individual men off the hook, and you're perpetuating the very problem you claim to be fighting against.
No one should have to prove they're an exception to a hateful statement.
I understand and validate your feelings, which is why I care so much about telling you about the misogyny you've internalised.
I don't see you as a prejudiced bitch; I see someone who has been victimised and hurt, and who has turned that hurt into something that will harm you and other women.
I understand it's exhausting, and I don't mean to attack. I just want to see you heal. Don't you think this has taken enough from you?
No one should have to prove they're an exception to a hateful statement.
If you think that being a decent person towards other humans is "proving yourself" then I don't know what to tell you. That's the bare minimum in human convivence, yet we are discussing about my mysoginy because I dared to say that if a man is a POS towards women, he's going to be hated.
You didn't say that. There is a difference between assuming someone is a bad person and making exceptions if they prove you wrong, vs noting who is a bad person and treating them accordingly. This difference in default assumptions is the basis of prejudice.
I didn't? Wait, let me check a second...
You just need to be a decent human being and poof you're an exception to the rule of "I hate all men".
There it is. Do you find it that hard to treat others with respect?
The fact that you are all trying to fight me over this as if I was asking the impossible to not hate men is the fucking reason why women pick the damn bear in the forest dilemma.
You are angry because a rando on the internet told you that if you don't want women to hate you, you need to treat them as a decent human being. That's all.
This is embarrassing.
I am not angry. I am slightly frustrated that this exact conversation keeps happening and that you are choosing to levy mild accusations at me but I feel no personal stake in this because we do not know each other.
Anyways, what I said was that you are making the default assumption that a man is bad, and then allowing good men to be exceptions to this rule. The quote you provided agrees with that. This is not the same thing as the causal relationship in your later statement that "if a man is a POS towards women, he’s going to be hated", where you do not assume someone is a bad person by default. I think assuming someone is a bad person by default is a bad practice because it leads one to treat other people badly if they are not familiar with them.
I think it's clear now that she is not yet in a place for personal growth and the emotions are still too raw. Unfortunately there's no way to proceed further without a level of fundamental trust that has been poisoned.
I appreciate your effort regardless. Kindness really is punk.
I would never defend an awful man. I agree that if someone is not treating a woman properly, they should face consequences.
Decency and respect are the bare minimum that anyone should expect. What I was trying to articulate, perhaps poorly, is that I'm okay with holding people accountable as long as they are the ones perpetrating the actions. I misinterpreted your previous statement as being about holding people accountable for actions not of their own making.
I need to apologise. I had to think about it, and I also think I misspoke. I don't think it would be classified as internalised misogyny, and it was harmful to paint it as such.
What I meant to say is that a blanket statement like 'all men are evil' unintentionally props up structures that normalise misogyny.
However, I should note that I understand that this was not your intention, and that the statement is more a reflection on the treatment of trans people, and the line of thinking applied to them.
If you think that being a decent person towards other humans is "proving yourself"
You're the one who said men have to prove themselves to be decent human beings in order to deserve not to be hated, so don't turn around and put your words in someone else's mouth for refuting your point.
"Decent human beings" don't walk around with a neon sign that says "I'm a decent human being." So how do you expect them to prove that? Going out of their way to do performative actions for literally every stranger they encounter, because otherwise the default is for those strangers to assume they're a terrible person? That makes no sense.
The whole point of the "all men are potentially dangerous" argument is that you can't tell at a glance who's safe and who isn't. You're conveniently ignoring that point in all these mental contortions you're going through to justify your hatred.
because I dared to say that if a man is a POS towards women, he's going to be hated.
That's not what you said. You said all men are going to be hated and that that's fine, and that if they want to not be hated then they have to somehow prove that they aren't a piece of shit. That's completely different from saying men shouldn't be hated by default, but if they're a piece of shit then it's okay to hate them.
And you never addressed how you expect men to prove they're not a piece of shit. Carry around a card that says "Certified NAH by women!"? Wear an official armband that says "Not an Asshole"?
Do they have to prove it to everyone they meet individually, for the rest of their lives? Or can they prove it just once and for all and be done with it? Do they have to recertify every few years or so?
Face it, you're being a bigot. And now matter how much you try to oversimplify the issue by saying "just do this and you'll be fine," you're no different from a racist who tells brown people "just prove that you're one of the good ones and then I won't hate you."
Glad you make exceptions when you find "one of the good ones"
"You're a credit to your gender!"
...clever girl.
Here is why what you're saying is problematic:
I tell you it’s ok to say you hate all black people. Because it’s extremely easy to prove you are not an absolute POS and therefore be an exception to the rule. You just need to be a decent human being and poof you’re an exception to the rule of “I hate all black people”. Because that rule is referred to the majority of assholes that roam around, not to every single black person without exception.
Edit: I love the amount of people angry at me because I said that the only thing a black person has to do to not be in the “hated list” is to be a decent human being as if I were asking them to climb the fucking Everest barehanded.
Give me a damn break…
Does this sound okay to you?
Plenty of men will quickly agree that men suck. If they they don't, they're either extremely naivë, from a different culture where men being awful isn't the norm, or they're not an exception for good reason.
As a man, I've been mistreated by men, both while I was growing up and in adulthood. Nobody ever cared about my problems or trauma because when they look at me all they see is "Man = Privileged" and they don't care about my problems, emotions, or well-being. Clearly they've never read bell hooks if they think that makes them a feminist.
It's always the oppression olympics: "No, you can't have any problems or trauma, because what about all these other people whose problems and trauma are worse." This isn't a fucking competition, dude. Patriarchy hurts men too, and it doesn't justify misandry.
"Stick it to the man" means "the authorities and arbitrary structures of power," not "some random dude down the street because he has no friends and that makes him an easy target."
Are you responding to the wrong person? If you are just looking for a place to stick your point, then cool.
I agree that it sucks that awful people dismiss the problems of others for reasons as stupid as gender. Anyone who uses their own trauma or disadvantages to try to shutdown others talking about their own problems are also bad.
Also, if anything I'm also a victim of those mechanism of how patriarchy hurts men? So yeah. It's not great.
And yet despite all of the things we seem to agree on, I still feel men suck and I think more men should be saying it.
It's more accurate to say that patriarchal culture sucks rather than men in general.
How the fuck are we regressing SO far and SO far?!?! Even having to say 'trans rights are human rights' EVER feels like trying to prevent a subset of the population from going on a gleeful murder spree or the supreme court allowing the other nazis to make special armbands for our trans brothers and sisters.
What the ever loving fuck.
Capitalism and its consequences
Religion and it's consequences
Capitalism the worst one though
There is alarge percentage of the population that absolutely cannot handle change at all.
This is a byproduct of a strict upbringing by psychos who act like a 2000+ year old fiction novel is at all reality and the shit fuck mental health services we have (because that same fiction novel says you were created perfrct and are special and health problems are WEAK) and poor overall education (because smart people stop believing the 2000+ year old work of fiction is real).
Also a lot of toxic hyper masculinity that has festeredfor generations and is DESPERATELY trying to cling to a world where "might makes right" masculinity was the real source of strength and power (as foretold 2000+ years ago in a fiction novel).
So sad there's no lesson here.
Just dudes?
I'm struggling to understand what she is actually complaining about in those tweets.
She's saying that we can't be women bc it somehow erases the struggles of cis women, even though we face the exact same misogyny. She really wants to have it both ways where she rejects us as women, but still "respects" us because otherwise she just looks like a bigoted ghoul. Unfortunately for her, not wanting to be an awful piece of shit is not enough to prevent you from being one.
It sounds to me like she's only just now figured out that trans people have feelings and is trying to retcon her bigotry into trans-inclusive victimhood? Like, nonono, guys, you don't get what I'm saying, trans people have rights, of course, I'm just saying I do too! Right? It's just that trans people, who I totally respect and always have, are trampling on my rights! I'm the victim here!
If somebody actually hates all trans people, then I suggest it's not worthwhile for decent humans to strain their sanity to analyze whether bigots' patterns of hate and logic are internally consistent.
Drop down consequences on that person, shunning, unemployment, leave them to rot. Effectively exterminating biggots.
It sounds cruel, but arguing with them, rarely changes them. They need to be suppressed or neutralized.
The worst generalization: the one against me. You people can't even understand that much?
"You people" lmfao
Put the stress on the word "you" at the beginning.
They're saying YOU can't do that. They can do whatever they want.
A place to post memes relating to the transgender experience.
Rules
[CW: Assumes Viewer is Transmasc][CW: Assumes Viewer is Transfem][CW: Assumes Viewer is Nonbinary][CW: Transphobia][CW: Violence][CW: Weapons/Firearms][CW: Disturbing Imagery]Because it apparently has to be said, this community is supportive of all forms of DIY HRT.
Recommendations
[Transfem/Transmasc/Non-binary]