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In a Congressional hearing on Wednesday, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) directly confronted anti-vaccine Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on his rejection of germ theory—the unquestionable scientific idea that specific pathogenic microbes cause specific diseases. After Kennedy defended his fringe view, Senator Bill Cassidy fact-checked and debunked Kennedy’s denialist arguments in real time.

The exchanges mark a rare instance in which Kennedy’s dismissal of germ theory has been raised in such a high-profile public setting, in this case, a hearing of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. Kennedy, who has no background in science, medicine, or public health, is well known as an ardent anti-vaccine activist and peddler of conspiracy theories. But his startling rejection of a cornerstone theory in biomedical science has mostly been underreported.

As Ars Technica reported last year, Kennedy wrote about his germ theory denialism explicitly in his 2021 book The Real Anthony Fauci. In it, Kennedy maligns germ theory as a tool of pharmaceutical companies, scientists, and doctors to promote the use of modern medicines. Instead of accepting germ theory, Kennedy promotes a concept akin to the discarded terrain theory, in which diseases stem not from germs, but from imbalances in the body’s inner “terrain.” Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors. (In his book, Kennedy erroneously labels this as “miasma theory,” but that is a different theory that suggests diseases derive from breathing bad air, vapors, or mists from decaying or corrupting matter. The idea was supplanted by germ theory, while terrain theory was never widely accepted.)

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[-] leoj@piefed.social 137 points 1 month ago

yikes, dude is gonna be draining the four humors.

[-] pdxfed@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

Who's the barber here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIi6hYpUoQ

What was only recently satire is an actual position.

They will kill you and your kids.

[-] leoj@piefed.social 14 points 1 month ago

Hopefully not me, I follow medical science, although obviously herd wide health practices will suffer which may result in higher mortality for everyone, even those who follow medical science.

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[-] scytale@piefed.zip 83 points 1 month ago

I bet he doesn't wash his hands after using the bathroom. Also, does he not visit the dentist? He should stop getting his teeth cleaned/checked if he thinks germs don't cause disease.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 100 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Pete Hegseth bragged on TV that he had not washed his hands in 10 years, because "germs are not a real thing." These are stupid people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47201923

[-] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

These are stupid people.

And yet they were able to fully take over the United States government. Really says something about the movements and institutions opposing them.

[-] matlag@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago

Says more about the fragility of democracies. For other countries, the warning should be clear: do not fucking defund public education, do not restrict education.

Unfortunately, we keep electing people who defund education, because it's expensive, and then cry that people vote for morons who waste away tens or hundreds of billions of dollars...

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[-] SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 month ago

To be fair, when he was young his parents put his swing too close to the wall.

[-] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 15 points 1 month ago

Fuckin Typhoid Mary. Can’t we exile him to an island for the rest of his life, too?

[-] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago

These people are just layers of scourges.

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[-] everett@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago

His hygienist specializes in miasmas.

[-] Entertainmeonly 70 points 1 month ago

The Horseman known as Pestilence.

[-] kylie_kraft@lemmy.world 52 points 1 month ago

A kind of Terry Pratchett, Good Omens version, absolutely. "We don't actually have to make new plagues, we just convince enough people that the natural plagues they've already got don't exist, or the causes aren't what they've been told, or that the treatments do greater harm than the disease. In fact, we don't even have to deceive that many. A handful of posts to alternative medicine, conspiracy, and mom's net forums, and human nature will do the rest."

[-] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 10 points 1 month ago

I need to read that one. Terry was a goddamn genius who got taken from us too soon.

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[-] uberdroog@lemmy.world 53 points 1 month ago

How is that even something I have to Read? Fuck these morons.

[-] massacre@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago

This guy is in charge of the CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL. Not only responsible for the health of the nearly 400M US Citizens, but really globally in many ways. And this failson thinks you can sweat away ebola with some fucking supplements... that he happens to peddle.

[-] GenChadT@infosec.pub 14 points 1 month ago

I love the term "failson". It's such an apt description for these grifting fuckups.

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[-] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago

This is all an attempt by the rich to reduce numbers of poor people. They need more people dying, so they’re going to pull out all the safety features we’ve built into our society to prolong life.

[-] GeekyOnion@lemmy.world 34 points 1 month ago

Less “reduce the number,” and more “make the poor more tractable.” The rich still need human carpet to walk on, they just need it to be uneducated, fecund, and desperate to get under their feet.

[-] birdwing 13 points 1 month ago

Also divided. A divided proletariat (class of wage earners) can make less of a fist against the elite.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

This contradicts their insistence that children should have children to stop population decline

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Right-wing politics has always been an incoherent ragbag of momentarily convenient positions, insincerely held.

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[-] sundray@lemmus.org 16 points 1 month ago

To reduce the number of non-working poor people. Or “useless eaters” as the psychotic, billionaire class calls them.

[-] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Or “useless eaters” as the psychotic, billionaire class calls them.

More projection, I see

[-] jaycifer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Is that why they’re trying to restrict birth control and sex education while saying people need to have more kids, so there will be fewer poor people?

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[-] SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml 39 points 1 month ago

Doctors I trust more than Doctor Oz, Doctor Phil, Pete Hegseth, or RFK Jr.

Doc Brown

Doc Gooden

Doc Holiday

Doc Hollywood

Doc Johnson

Doc McStuffins

Doctor John Becker

Doctor Bombay

Doctor Bronner

Doctor Claw

Doctor Demento

Doctor Detroit

Doctor Dirty

Doctor Dolittle

Doctor Doofenshmirtz aka Dr. D or just “Doof”

Doctor Doom

Doctor Drake Ramoray ("Days of Our Lives")

Doctor Evil

Doctor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Doctor Feelgood

Doctor Frankenstein

Doctor Girlfriend

Doctor Hannibal Lecter

Doctor Horrible

Doctor Douglas "Doogie" Howser

Doctor Gregory House

Doctor Jekyll

Doctor Johnny Fever

Doctor Kevorkian

Doctor Kildare

Doctor Richard Kimble

Doctor Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy

Doctor Martens

Doctor Moreau

Doctor Nick

Doctor Otto Octavius

Doctor Pimple Popper

Doctor Scholl's

Doctor Orin Scrivello

Doctor Seuss

Doctor Zachary Smith

Doctor Spaceman

Doctor Spock

Doctor Strange

Doctor Strangelove

Doctor Teeth

Doctor Theopolis

Doctor Watson

Doctor Marcus Welby

Doctor Who

Doctor Zaius

Doctor Zhivago

Doctor Zoidberg

Dr. Dre

Dr. Enuf

Dr. Hook

Dr. J (Julius Erving)

Dr. Octogonapus (DOCTOROCTAGONAPUSBLURRR)

Dr. Otto Octavius

Dr. Pepper

Dr. Donald D. Rose

Dr. Tedros

Dr. Tran

Rug Doctor

Spin Doctors

The Doctor (Star Trek: Voyager)

Even Nurse Ratchet

[-] W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 month ago

Nurse Ratchet! You are my people.

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[-] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 37 points 1 month ago

It is insane to think that he is endorsing a theory that was widely rejected even by Miasma guys in the 19th century.

The miasma advocates were wrong, but they still did many things that were beneficial. The first water treatment plants that provided the first safe drinking water were advocated for by miasma advocates, and the London sewer system, one that is still being used today was also built by them.

Terrain theory? They did jack shit. Just a bunch of crazy nuts who rejected both miasma and germ theory in the late 19th century.

[-] leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

To be fair, miasma theory made sense and was completely logical, before microscopes.

They knew about actual lethal gases, and ones that had different effects on the body. They knew there were gases they couldn't yet detect, as they were still discovering new ones. They knew rotting stuff produced all kind of gases and stenchs.

Hell, the theory is still pretty much valid for radon, though for reasons they couldn't have possibly imagined.

And at the same time, the idea that animals could get small enough to be invisible, and to invade the human body, was absurd.

It came as quite a surprise when the microscope was invented and every single drop of water turned out to be a whole ecosystem teeming with life, and we turned out to be precariously balanced colonies of microscopic cells, also inhabited by a whole bacterial ecosystem teeming with both friends and foes.

And then came viruses, which are downright absurd to the point that we're still figuring out where they fit in the tree of life, and whether they're alive or not.

And prions, which are the stuff of horror science fiction yet completely logical when you think about how proteins work, and how easily they might sometimes not.

Miasma theory wasn't correct, sure, but it was definitely simpler, and made much more sense than the mess reality turned out to be.

[-] nulluser@lemmy.world 36 points 1 month ago

Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors.

So, like swimming in streams polluted with sewage?

[-] danekrae@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago
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[-] tgirlschierke 31 points 1 month ago
[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

So he'll eat a Listeria salad and an Ecoli burger, washed down with some Girardia river water and think it was his bodies imbalance that made him sick???

[-] leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago

Yes. This guy literally eats roadkill. And brags about it.

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[-] AccoSpoot1@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago

Literal medieval doctor levels of medical understanding.

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When he dies, I hope they do an autopsy of his body to see how many parasites and infections he had.

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[-] RonnyZittledong@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

We truly live in the golden age of the moron.

[-] regdog@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

Oh no, facts.

Surely this will be the undoing of JFK Jr.

[-] ozoned@piefed.social 16 points 1 month ago

These kinds of things are available to watch and honestly, with this current adminstration, they're incredibly interesting imo. If you care to watch the whole thing:

https://www.c-span.org/program/senate-committee/hhs-secretary-robert-f-kennedy-testifies-on-health-policy-part-1/677979

If you just want Bernie Sander's question it's the second star at about 24:00

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[-] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Quite frustrating that the efforts of millions worldwide with cold evidence would be ignored and dismissed by one shortsighted charlatan. The world can only mock him for trying to screw his own citizens.

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[-] CorneliusTalmadge@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

You mean environmental toxins like germs?

[-] WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 month ago

Debunking doesn’t matter in the US in 2026. Bullets do.

[-] Malfeasant@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

unquestionable

Can we not call it that? The beauty of science is that it can be questioned.

[-] tristynalxander@mander.xyz 14 points 1 month ago

Eh, while it's nice to say that science is all about method and nothing is above being questioned, at a certain point there's so much evidence that it's insane to argue against them. Like, I'm fine saying more than just germs cause disease or that not all germs cause disease, but saying there are no germs that cause disease when we the mountains of evidence we currently have is insane. It's a lot like saying gravity doesn't exist. Like you can argue that maybe gravity is a niche case or a product of a particular frame of reference, but things still fall down. We know that, it's unquestionable.

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[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago

Don't hold your hand (or god forbid, elbow) in front of your mouth when you sneeze, it's actually racoon penis slime coming out and that is totally fine.

[-] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's extremely poor hygiene to sneeze into your hand fyi

[-] sundray@lemmus.org 8 points 1 month ago

“You cover your mouth with the inner part of your elbow—it’s called the vampire cough!”

“Oh-no!”

“No, it’s all right—there’s no real vampires!”

(From The Office, I forget which episode.)

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[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors. (In his book, Kennedy erroneously labels this as “miasma theory,” but that is a different theory that suggests diseases derive from breathing bad air, vapors, or mists from decaying or corrupting matter.

I mean, let's not pretend that poor nutrition, environmental toxins and stressors, polluted air, and volatile gases don't contribute to disease.

Some diseases are bacterial, yes. RFK Jr.'s denial of germ theory is asinine, and his comprehension of the ideas he promotes is probably tenuous and inane. I'm not claiming that he's on to something.

But let's not lie to ourselves. Let's not fall for the stupidity by running clear to the opposite end of the stupidity.

Disease is complex and often precipitated by multiple factors. And environmental, toxicological, nutritional, and nervous factors absolutely do contribute to disease.

Edit: I normally don't get butthurt about getting downvotes, but y'all downvoting this comment really need to think with your braincells for a minute...

[-] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 month ago

Ok, but the guy flat-out rejects absolute and established truth.

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this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2026
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