Yeah. Marx called it formal vs. real freedom. All the people are free to sleep under the bridges or at a five star penthouse. But some are forced to sleep under the bridge and only a few have means to exercise the freedom to enter the penthouse.
Wage slavery. The US is one of the worst offenders. By binding your healthcare to your employer and having next to no worker protection laws, the loss of your job might cause homelessness or death. Is that really a choice? Work or die? And with stagnating wages who has the financial security and time to fight for their rights?
This is of course by design.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what ‘personal liberty’ is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment. Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread.”
You have stumbled onto one of the most fundamental criticisms of modern capitalism, freedom & plenty for the few. It's better than a hereditary feudal system in that upward class mobility isn't categorically forbidden, but the reality for the vast majority of people is that actually moving up is not possible because the game is still rigged to produce almost exactly the same results as the old system.
The USA you're free to do whatever you like as long as it's these few specific things we believe are economically beneficial to the leaders but not you.
Unironically what natives of the Great Lakes region have been saying about the "civilized" western way of life for centuries.
The economy is designed to keep you locked into working for the rest of your life under stress. Freedom is only given to capitalists because that's how the system is designed.
Asterix did a great bit on that. Slaves are freed and put to work for money, but suddenly they owe for food, housing, clothing, infrastructure etc. and are just as much slaves as before. In fact, they go back to being slaves because then they don't have to worry anymore.
In fact, they go back to being slaves because then they don’t have to worry anymore.
This last bit is Neo-Confederate propaganda. The "slaves were happy to be slaves" myth is wildly apocryphal.
Far more often, the freedmen leave their plantation economies in pursuit of more lucrative work in more industrial and urban regions. Harlem, New York and Detroit, Michigan are testament to the exodus of American colored people northward following the war. Or they strike out to undeveloped territories and form their own municipalities. Large black communities popped up across the Southwest and West coast, as the post-Civil War frontier was subjected to industrial scale genocide of native peoples.
The consequence of this mass migration is a labor shortage at home. One which can only be resolved by (a) raising wages / living standards until people want to stay or (b) re-enslaving the population through other means. In the case of the US South, these "other means" were the Jim Crow laws, which transformed the private plantation economy into a publicly managed (and privately profitable) state prison economy.
Following the end of Reconstruction under Rutherford B. Hayes, southern state governments imposed a suite of laws forbidding "vagrancy" and constricting the right of colored people to travel unattended. Independent communities of black citizens were raided and demolished (The Wilmington Massacre of 1898, the Tulsa Massacre of 1921 being two notable examples - really all of Red Summer being a major historical turning point for American race relations). Enormous prison compounds were constructed. And the incarceration rate among people of color skyrocketed.
The campaign to re-enslave the colored population was a central position of the "Dixiecrats" straight into the LBJ administration. And capturing these revanchists was pivotal to the Nixon and Reagan campaigns, even as the taste for segregation soured nationally on the American tongue. All of this was covered up and expunged from US History, following the 1980s Reagan Revolution and the reactionary efforts to undo the Civil Rights Movement. So it's very easy to never know the long dark winter of civil rights in post-Civil War American history.
But "slaves were actually happier to be on the plantation" is textbook Coolidge Era white nationalist revisionism.
Yup. I remember a friend and I discussing various forms of freedoms: Freedom of speech, religion, privacy, etc. We tried to rank them by importance, and while I cannot remember our conclusions, I remember "Economic freedom" to be among the most important ones.
A person should have disposable income and freedom to spent it how they want.
i like to think it’s not “disposable” income that is spent on things required for life, hunger, house, health. those things should be provided. and those industries not allowed to profit. and be owned by the workers.
we must also demand enough free time to enjoy the fruits of our labor.
its by design, politicians billionaire class intentionally instigated this way so people dont start pondering about politics, rising up against the aristocrats.
Eh, yes and no.
People often don't really appreciate how much freedom they have until it's taken away.
But even with no money at all, I have a bike, and I can ride it as far as I care to in any direction I want (well, at least until I hit a border). And that is so much more freedom than I've had at other points in my life.
How would you get food and healthcare? What about people with a chronic condition where if they lose their healthcare they won't physically be able to?
Okay... but what happens when you're hungry and broke at the same time? Just gonna ride your bike until you happen to come across someone handing out free food? The 'ability to bike around the block' isn't the kind of freedom that OP was talking about, it's the freedom to do what you want with your life without being forced to do something else (make money) first
I would say more to the point if everything in life needs to make a profit then freedom isn't free
Slavery is not being denied the ability to earn wages.
Slavery is being denied the ability to save.
I will also dissent on this. I've been homeless. I've lived in a rural subsistence community in West Africa where everyone lived on $1 a day. Material items and money do not define freedom.
Your premise is based on a wealthy materialist American mindset. Billions of people, every day, grind just to survive, and yet can still find joy in their lives. A lot of times that's through basic human connection. Visit any of the poorest places on the planet, and it doesn't take much to get people to stop and take notice and smile. To experience joy. Joy is free. Freedom is the ability to have your own emotions, thoughts, and feelings.
Before you get all up about someone keeping them down to prevent some Marxist paradise, please keep in mind that rain-fed agriculture is a gamble many people play with their lives every day. A large, large number of humans grind against the weather. Not as slaves to anyone else.
And, rest assured, there are wealthy people who are miserable and wear "golden handcuffs" because they are stuck doing something they don't love to maintain an above-average standard of living. Fuck - how many of those stupid Housewives shows are there, filled to overflowing with wealthy people showing you in grotesque detail how money and material trap people in pain and emotional suffering, exploited like an emaciated lion in a zoo.
What can YOU do for free to enjoy your freedom? Here's a fun one, go dumpster diving! You'll find cool shit! Some of it you can sell - that's free money, my guy! You can forage for herbs and food, that's always fun once you know what to look for. Oh, you can make hooch from the stuff you find! You can plant the seeds of rotten tomatoes and start a garden. Go with a friend and you might just enjoy yourself. Or go volunteer at a place that feeds the homeless and talk to the people there and get an idea of how much freedom some of them have exactly because they have changed their mindset. Freedom doesn't mean acceptance by society. It's not 1:1 that you are free and loved or free and appreciated, or free and wealthy or free and even fucking smart. But you can taste freedom and realize that only you can bestow it on yourself.
You and you alone own your actions, thoughts and words. What are you doing with them?
The homeless people I've talked to with broken limbs and teeth who can't afford to get treatment didn't seem happy at all except for the fact that they were getting a slight amount of aid and human connection from the organization I was working with. One of the ones I talked to was on their way to the convenience store to buy alcohol to cope with their injuries.
Driving Uber has been such a sobering exposure to the unfathomable levels of bullshit so many people are dealing with. It's so, so much. Once you lose your footing for half a second, you're going to bounce and drag along the bottom indefinitely.
It's great that you found a way to be happy in the situation you were in. Personally, I wouldn't have been. All the time I don't have to spend worrying about whether I can feed my kids, or give them a roof over their heads, or worrying about them getting sick and me not being able to afford treatment, I use for things that enrich my life. I spend it with friends and family, I read books, every now and then I travel to a place I haven't been to before.
If you consider wanting to feed your kids and spend time with family materialistic, fine. But some folks need such shallow materialistic things to be happy. I'm one of them.
I understand that believing these things may have helped you cope psychologically with the stress of being homeless, but that doesn't make them any less fucking stupid
Freedom to toil, freedom to starve, freedom to suffer without medicine or medical care. Freedom to freeze on the cold and bake in the sun.
It is difficult for me to imagine what "personal liberty" is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment.
Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread. Only in such a society is real, and not paper, personal and every other liberty possible.
Everyone here should remember the story of Damocles. One of the things I enjoy about being poor is that I have nothing for people to steal. I don't worry about muggings, carjackings, home invasions, kidnapping. When you have money, a line starts to form to take it from you.
Yep, for more information on that read Debt: the First 5000 Years, it goes pretty deep into it from both anthropological and political perspectives
Yes, and this is why old school liberals (i.e. supporters of liberty for all) support social programs. Supporting those that can't comfortably support themselves brings freedom from exploitation.
This is freedom under capitalism
Go to the library and read a book on Zen or something. You can't be free until you renounce material desire.
Is food material desire?
Apparently so- according to this guy. You’re lucky to not be charged for all that air too, your welcome dirty socialist xD /heavily joking /heavy sarcasm
Fr there are human rights and consumerism. It’s ehh how people can be like “having less in life is real freedom” just to cope for being poor and not be able to meet the minimal satisfaction of life.
Actually, just go to the library. Depending on where you live, you'll not just find all kinds of books, there may also be audio book, board games, console games, game consoles and computers you can just use.
There might comfortable furniture and coffee, you can go there just for the mood or the peace.
Got kids? There might be a whole section just for kids. It may include toys or even a play-area.
There might a whole wall of post from people who wants your attention on something. There's probably a few about free activities you could join.
Or, go to the library and read some Marx. You can't avoid material circumstances in your life, they shape it.
Whether you even have the opportunity to go to the library and sit there reading is, in itself, a material circumstance that is subject to change.
You realize money is required for more than material goods, right? Experiences take money. Museums, live events, transportation, lodging (even if just a tent), all need money. In some places, accessing parks and beaches require money. None of these things are desires for material goods, but desires for experiences - experiences that make life more fulfilling. Experiences that can enrich the spirit, or provide opportunities for bonding with others.
I can get behind anti-consumerism, but to be unable to partake in enjoying nature or exploring our culture, just because we’re poor, is to deny us access to a crucial part of our humanity.
Maybe freedom as in financial freedom? I feel trapped cause of trauma and stuff but there's layers.
It is with this premise that I began to formulate a concept of UBI, ranked income, and so forth. People simply can't do stuff if they don't have enough things to support a baseline existence. That baseline should be strong enough to offer education, health, freedom to wait for jobs that aren't abusive, the ability to travel, and so on. Agency is the core to an effective human, and our capitalistic society is designed to confer that agency upon a few.
It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment.
Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread. Only in such a society is real, and not paper, personal and every other liberty possible.
– Joey S
Sounds a bit extreme. What about all the things you can do for free? Also, the world needs cheap things to keep everyone spending. I’m pretty sure there will always be at least something even the poor can afford.
It is tricky, yes.
If you happen to be able to participate in events that are free however, you have more options.
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.