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submitted 5 days ago by not_IO to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] paultimate14@lemmy.world 128 points 5 days ago

That is basically why the Standard Deduction exists.

[-] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 49 points 5 days ago

I dunno how it works in the US but in Aus I can't deduct anything unless it's related to work, apparently feeding and housing myself doesn't contribute to that ..

[-] huppakee@piefed.social 39 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

In a lot of places a part of your income is exempt from taxes (eg brackets where you pay 0-20k @ 0%, 30-60k @ 30%, 60-100k @ 40%, 100k+ @ 50%; then your first 20k is not taxed), i think this is what they are talking about.

Edit: another possibility would be they do mean actual expenses, just reminded you can (partially) deduct education expenses from your taxes in the Netherlands.

[-] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 13 points 5 days ago

I guess you could argue that that's the reasoning behind the progressive tax regime. Australia's progressive tax lines up with the low end of that but if you were going to claim that the tax free threshold was to cover general living expenses then it's going to need to be a lot larger, 20k bere is not enough to cover rent, food and utilities here, a 3x2 near Perth is like $800/week for rent and I would argue interest on a mortgage is comparable and Perth is on the cheap end of Australian cities. That's like 40k without utilities and food. So either the tax free threshold was poorly implemented without indexation against inflation and cost of living or the driver of it isn't to cover basic cost of living and is more to ease the burden on the poor end of town. I guess you could say it's a little bit of both but arguably indexation should be implemented.

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[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 21 points 5 days ago

True, and perhaps credible for a married couple with a 31k deduction, but the 15k deduction for an individual might be a bit rough for single folks.

[-] ugandan_airways@lemmy.zip 10 points 5 days ago

It’s complete bullshit. What city can you rent an apartment for 15k/year even with roommates?

[-] wer2@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 days ago

Depends on what you define as a city. A quick search of a random city (Saginaw, MI), I see some 2 bedrooms for 985 a month.

Of course people from LA might not call that a city, but, to people from towns of 800 people, it is huge at about 44k people.

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[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 days ago

It doesn't really make a difference if both parents are working and make similar amounts. Then that part is no different from filing separately.

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[-] xorollo@leminal.space 8 points 5 days ago

But if I itemize instead, I can't count those things.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 29 points 4 days ago

You have to think about why it works that way.

A profit from a business is money that is taken out of the business. If the activities of the business generate more money than the business is spending, it doesn't have to become profit. It can also be re-invested in hiring more people, buying more equipment, training their workforce, expanding to new locations, even given as raises or bonuses to their employees. In theory, all of the things other than generating a profit are generally things that are good for the community. Employees can get hired, or trained, or raises. The business can expand allowing more people to buy from them, etc.

A profit is taxed because it's basically what a business does when it doesn't have any other useful ways of spending its money. In that case the excess money is just going to the business owners. The government is basically saying "ok, well if you aren't going to use that money for something that benefits everyone, and are just going to give it to the owners, we'll take our cut now. If the profits go directly to the business owners as income, they're then taxed again as income tax (again, in theory, in practice business owners don't want to pay that as income tax so they'll try to arrange to avoid it).

Income taxes are a different kind of taxation. They're basically a way for the government to own part of your labour. They go back to the time when peasants worked on the land. In exchange for the soldiers protecting them from bandits, the peasants shared some of their harvest. (I realize it was much more coercive than that, but the idealized theory is that taxes were to support the government which protects you or provides you services.)

The obvious problem with "after I've paid all my bills and rent" is that "all my bills and rent" is something that someone could always adjust so they had to pay zero taxes. Even if you just limited it to "my housing expenses, food expenses, water bill, and electrical bill" someone might buy a huge house, or buy only the finest groceries, or install lavish fountains, or run up their electrical bills. So, instead you might want to say that someone only gets taxed after reasonable living expenses are deducted... and that's how things work.

Progressive taxation schemes typically mean that you pay 0 tax on your first X dollars earned per year. X is supposedly set to the minimum of what someone needs to get by. The way it's done on the US is that the lowest tax rate is set at 10%, but the standard deduction is set at $15,750, so the 10% only kicks in once you've passed that. $15,750 is absurdly low. It should really be at least double that, if not triple, but the idea is there. That's the "only after I've paid all my bills and rent" number, if you assume someone is paying the lowest rent possible and their bills are the absolute necessities. But, I don't think anybody could realistically live on their own for $15,750 per year.

So... yeah, Lisa. Things already work like that. It's just that the numbers are all fucked, there are too many loopholes and exceptions.

[-] Unlearned9545@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

Businesses do the exact same thing to hide their profits, espicially since the owners can now borrow money against the value of their shares instead of relying on profits.

[-] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 days ago

So, instead you might want to say that someone only gets taxed after reasonable living expenses are deducted… and that’s how things work.

Things already work like that

Dude. What the fuck are you on?

Walmart revenue was $681 billion Walmart taxes were $6.8 billion.

Reinvestment doesn't matter in this comparison. If it did, I could reinvest some money into something that would lower my taxable amount. That's what the meme is about.

[-] xor 3 points 4 days ago

Dude. What the fuck are you on?

You can invest money into things that lower your taxable amount, for example charitable donations, investing in your pension and improving your home energy efficiency. That's exactly what tax credits and itemised tax deductions are.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-and-deductions-for-individuals

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[-] glibg10b@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Here's my opinion, as someone who has zero education in economics. Feel free to voice your disagreement if you know better

If your personal expenses match your income but those expenses can't be written off, the resulting taxes result in a net loss for that month. This would be the same with a business if expenses could not be written off

And in my opinion, buying a house should not be written off as a personal expense, and neither should a business buying a warehouse be able to write it off either. If something can be sold, only the permanent loss should be considered an expense -- the remainder should be an asset

But bills and rent are generally permanent expenses. You don't get anything back after paying them, except the continuation of your services. I think these should be deductible. Similarly, if a business has to pay for a SaaS solution, I'm okay with that being a deductible

Is my thinking flawed?

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[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 65 points 5 days ago

I wrote a free spec script for a charity organization, enabling me to write off ~$50k in charitable donations for putting in a few hours of work.

Everyone should be looking for loopholes and ways to prevent the US government from getting their money.

[-] TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 5 days ago

I asked a CPA about this idea a couple months ago and was told that it doesn't work that way, and everything I can find on the internet backs that up. Can you provide a source saying otherwise?

[-] AuroraZzz@lemmy.world 19 points 5 days ago

I'm gonna agree with you. If OP gets audited, this will not hold up. OP cannot deduct money for a service that the charity pays nothing for. Only unreimbursed or out of pocket expenses can be deducted this way

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 15 points 5 days ago

If OP gets audited, this will not hold up.

The IRS actually already did look it over. They decided (rather arbitrarily) that the script I donated was worth ~50,000 instead of ~70,000 as I was trying to claim. Definitely not a full audit, but they already reviewed it at some level and it passed muster.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Right because you're donating intellectual property which is property. And that distinction is fucking nonsense but here we are. I doubt a full audit would allow market prices to survive on that though. They'd be like "hey now, this didn't cost you that." But to do a full audit we'd actually have to fund the IRS. Good luck getting that to happen.

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[-] petersr@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

You sound like every business man ever.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 6 points 5 days ago

You must learn from your enemy to defeat them.

[-] huppakee@piefed.social 7 points 5 days ago

I intend to pass the loophole my parents gave me to my children, really grateful for it

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[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 40 points 5 days ago

Homeowners can write off the interest paid towards their mortgage. Renters can't write off shit.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If we have enough deductions to justify itemizing instead of taking the standard deduction.

I haven't had a need to itemize in several years.

That's not nearly as much of a perk as people make it out to be. It's good for a couple of years when you're mostly paying interest, but it's really not much.

Remember, a deduction is just removing the expense from your taxable income. It's not like we get that back from taxes...that'd be a credit.

So if I pay $5000 in interest over the course of the year, im not getting $5k back on my taxes. We just pretend my gross income is $5k less. And most the time, the standard deduction ends up being more anyway.

Most W2 workers take standard deduction. You aren't missing anything.

[-] ramble81@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago

Itemizing stopped being beneficial for me when they capped the mortgage interest deduction at $10K.

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[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago

It’s by design, and in theory meant to encourage ownership to put personal stakes in the region. In practice, of course, homes are laughably unaffordable and it’s a free bonus for the rich.

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[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

That's how it works in many countries.

Business pays tax on profits (revenue - expenses). Salary has smaller tax for business compared to pure profits, employees don't pay it because it's not profit. So businesses have incentives to keep human employees instead of keeping all the profits for themselves.

And that applies to all businesses. So if you, for example, bought a carrot for $10, tax is included, you don't pay tax on it.

  • The distributor bought it for $6, spent $1, pays tax on their profit ($3),
  • farmer grew it, used fertilizer, seeds, labor, etc., pays tax on profit (maybe $2),
  • the fertilizer company again pays tax on their profit, and so on

In US you pay tax on every transaction. You get salary, you pay tax, you buy a thing, you pay tax, you eat something, again tax. This makes you more aware government is taking money, compared to the first scenario. But it also gives government ways to make complicated rules and give different tax benefits to different people. In the first scenario, government help goes to everyone whether they have a job or not. In this case you only get Tax cuts if you already make money.

[-] Eximius@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is the first time I hear that there are countries that have company profit tax more than employee tax. What countries are those?

[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Interesting, I thought that'd be a normal thing because it makes so much sense.

I didn't go deeper into it, but I could see several examples in just the first 10 entries here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

The corporate tax rate starts from high amount, while individual starts from lower amount, and in many case even the top earners don't have as high. It's mostly because top earners are still salaried and that's not "profit", if you have a business you already are paying corporate tax. Many rich people employ their family to pay less tax, but you can't do anything that requires specific qualifications.

Edit: for individual tax brackets and what is a reasonable salary, would take more research. I might do that later in the month because now I'm interested.

[-] dovah@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

My CPA always reminds me, US tax laws are not written for us.

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 5 days ago

Where are you from?
I can file a lot of the bills for my flat (e.g. things like repairs and facility service) at the tax office, as well as stuff like child care and most of my car's mileage (or my bike's mileage :-) ), to be exempted from income taxing at least (there are still other taxes).
Rent money would be fully taxed, though, as well as other cost of living like food and clothing.
Country is Germany.

[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

That's kind of what the standard deduction is. Horribly out of date and not on pace with inflation, but still.

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[-] The_Red_Scimitar@thelemmy.club 8 points 4 days ago

Makes more sense than it might seem, since when you pay all those bills, that's usually taxable income to the recipient. So if it isn't a write off, taxes can be paid many times on the same item.

[-] null@lemmy.org 15 points 5 days ago

I've tried writing everything off, but it's always been less than the standard deduction.

[-] maplesaga@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Whats next, removing the inflation targeting that is actively eroding salaries and the minimum wage?

Imagine not having to ask for a raise but your cost of living getting cheaper, cant have that because no one would buy anything and we would all starve to death. Trust in the science told to us by the gods of corporate bailouts.

[-] Amir@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 days ago

Deflation is not what you want because the capital class would be able to explode their value even more.

[-] Don_alForno@feddit.org 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

But then again, groceries and rent would go way up because they'd anticipate that, and instead of funding public spending that benefits everybody you'd give even more money to greedy capitalists.

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[-] ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

Things you buy for work are also tax deductible, it’s more noticeable for businesses since they don’t generally make employees pay business expenses.

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this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2026
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