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submitted 2 months ago by not_IO to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] paultimate14@lemmy.world 128 points 2 months ago

That is basically why the Standard Deduction exists.

[-] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 50 points 2 months ago

I dunno how it works in the US but in Aus I can't deduct anything unless it's related to work, apparently feeding and housing myself doesn't contribute to that ..

[-] huppakee@piefed.social 39 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In a lot of places a part of your income is exempt from taxes (eg brackets where you pay 0-20k @ 0%, 30-60k @ 30%, 60-100k @ 40%, 100k+ @ 50%; then your first 20k is not taxed), i think this is what they are talking about.

Edit: another possibility would be they do mean actual expenses, just reminded you can (partially) deduct education expenses from your taxes in the Netherlands.

[-] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 13 points 2 months ago

I guess you could argue that that's the reasoning behind the progressive tax regime. Australia's progressive tax lines up with the low end of that but if you were going to claim that the tax free threshold was to cover general living expenses then it's going to need to be a lot larger, 20k bere is not enough to cover rent, food and utilities here, a 3x2 near Perth is like $800/week for rent and I would argue interest on a mortgage is comparable and Perth is on the cheap end of Australian cities. That's like 40k without utilities and food. So either the tax free threshold was poorly implemented without indexation against inflation and cost of living or the driver of it isn't to cover basic cost of living and is more to ease the burden on the poor end of town. I guess you could say it's a little bit of both but arguably indexation should be implemented.

[-] prole 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Standard deduction is slightly different than an exemption. You're deducting a set amount (instead of itemizing it, which only makes sense to do if the total is more than the standard deduction, which it won't be for most professions).

An ~~exception~~ exemption would be removing a portion of the taxable income before it is taxed.

Pretty similar outcome for most people, but still an important distinction.

Edit: fixed autocorrect error

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

True, and perhaps credible for a married couple with a 31k deduction, but the 15k deduction for an individual might be a bit rough for single folks.

[-] ugandan_airways@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 months ago

It’s complete bullshit. What city can you rent an apartment for 15k/year even with roommates?

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[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago

It doesn't really make a difference if both parents are working and make similar amounts. Then that part is no different from filing separately.

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Point is a couple shares rent. A couple's residence is unlikely to be twice the cost of a single residence, unless you have roommates. So 30k for a couple guess further than 15k living alone.

[-] Flames5123@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago

Exactly. It’s to incentivize one person to be a bread winner and one to make less and be a home maker (or something with less hours) so you get the tax benefits. It would be a nice system if expenses weren’t so damn high.

[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I don't know any couples my age who don't both work.

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[-] xorollo@leminal.space 8 points 2 months ago

But if I itemize instead, I can't count those things.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Yes, and businesses do also pay taxes on more than their profits. Payroll tax is a huge one.

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

Payroll tax is not a tax on business, it's also a tax on workers, it's just business is deducting it automatically, and paying it to government, to reduce the amount of transactions.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes and no. You’re right of course that part of pay is withheld and paid as tax, but that isn’t what I was referring to. There is an additional component, beyond what is withheld from employee pay, which is paid directly from the business to the state which the employee never sees. It’s a similar amount.

[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 months ago

Yeah but even that is sort of a tax on employees

When our business decides how much we can afford to pay someone for a position, the math is always with what that payroll tax is included.

So without the payroll tax we may be able to afford paying someone $25/hour.

With it we may only be able to afford to pay them $22/hour.

It reduces the amount we can afford to pay the employee, even though it's technically never given to them in the first place it's money that could have gone to them.

I would love to pay more but that tax takes it out of my hands.

[-] batshit@lemmings.world 6 points 2 months ago

But that doesn't mean it's a tax on the employee. That's like saying sales tax is on the business, when it's actually on the customer.

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[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

If you must twist everything around in order to make it about the government and business screwing the employee, then you must.

I could just as easily say that the business has to pay employees more to make up for what they’re going to lose to payroll tax deductions so even the employee side tax is a tax on the business!

Or we could just be adults and admit that the government taxes the employee and the business both.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 65 points 2 months ago

I wrote a free spec script for a charity organization, enabling me to write off ~$50k in charitable donations for putting in a few hours of work.

Everyone should be looking for loopholes and ways to prevent the US government from getting their money.

[-] TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 months ago

I asked a CPA about this idea a couple months ago and was told that it doesn't work that way, and everything I can find on the internet backs that up. Can you provide a source saying otherwise?

[-] AuroraZzz@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

I'm gonna agree with you. If OP gets audited, this will not hold up. OP cannot deduct money for a service that the charity pays nothing for. Only unreimbursed or out of pocket expenses can be deducted this way

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 15 points 2 months ago

If OP gets audited, this will not hold up.

The IRS actually already did look it over. They decided (rather arbitrarily) that the script I donated was worth ~50,000 instead of ~70,000 as I was trying to claim. Definitely not a full audit, but they already reviewed it at some level and it passed muster.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Right because you're donating intellectual property which is property. And that distinction is fucking nonsense but here we are. I doubt a full audit would allow market prices to survive on that though. They'd be like "hey now, this didn't cost you that." But to do a full audit we'd actually have to fund the IRS. Good luck getting that to happen.

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[-] huppakee@piefed.social 7 points 2 months ago

I intend to pass the loophole my parents gave me to my children, really grateful for it

[-] petersr@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

You sound like every business man ever.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 6 points 2 months ago

You must learn from your enemy to defeat them.

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[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 40 points 2 months ago

Homeowners can write off the interest paid towards their mortgage. Renters can't write off shit.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

If we have enough deductions to justify itemizing instead of taking the standard deduction.

I haven't had a need to itemize in several years.

That's not nearly as much of a perk as people make it out to be. It's good for a couple of years when you're mostly paying interest, but it's really not much.

Remember, a deduction is just removing the expense from your taxable income. It's not like we get that back from taxes...that'd be a credit.

So if I pay $5000 in interest over the course of the year, im not getting $5k back on my taxes. We just pretend my gross income is $5k less. And most the time, the standard deduction ends up being more anyway.

Most W2 workers take standard deduction. You aren't missing anything.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

My primary income is W2, but I have a 1099 side gig (teaching scuba and underwater photography at a university) that usually results in me itemizing mostly because my gear is stupid expensive and I rarely make an actual profit. The write-offs are enough to let me justify spending the money on the gear to help me break even while teaching.

I do multi-year write-offs on the big-ticket items, because one underwater camera rig (camera, housing, strobes, wet-lenses, etc) costs what I make teaching underwater photography across 4-6 semesters.

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[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

It’s by design, and in theory meant to encourage ownership to put personal stakes in the region. In practice, of course, homes are laughably unaffordable and it’s a free bonus for the rich.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 29 points 2 months ago

You have to think about why it works that way.

A profit from a business is money that is taken out of the business. If the activities of the business generate more money than the business is spending, it doesn't have to become profit. It can also be re-invested in hiring more people, buying more equipment, training their workforce, expanding to new locations, even given as raises or bonuses to their employees. In theory, all of the things other than generating a profit are generally things that are good for the community. Employees can get hired, or trained, or raises. The business can expand allowing more people to buy from them, etc.

A profit is taxed because it's basically what a business does when it doesn't have any other useful ways of spending its money. In that case the excess money is just going to the business owners. The government is basically saying "ok, well if you aren't going to use that money for something that benefits everyone, and are just going to give it to the owners, we'll take our cut now. If the profits go directly to the business owners as income, they're then taxed again as income tax (again, in theory, in practice business owners don't want to pay that as income tax so they'll try to arrange to avoid it).

Income taxes are a different kind of taxation. They're basically a way for the government to own part of your labour. They go back to the time when peasants worked on the land. In exchange for the soldiers protecting them from bandits, the peasants shared some of their harvest. (I realize it was much more coercive than that, but the idealized theory is that taxes were to support the government which protects you or provides you services.)

The obvious problem with "after I've paid all my bills and rent" is that "all my bills and rent" is something that someone could always adjust so they had to pay zero taxes. Even if you just limited it to "my housing expenses, food expenses, water bill, and electrical bill" someone might buy a huge house, or buy only the finest groceries, or install lavish fountains, or run up their electrical bills. So, instead you might want to say that someone only gets taxed after reasonable living expenses are deducted... and that's how things work.

Progressive taxation schemes typically mean that you pay 0 tax on your first X dollars earned per year. X is supposedly set to the minimum of what someone needs to get by. The way it's done on the US is that the lowest tax rate is set at 10%, but the standard deduction is set at $15,750, so the 10% only kicks in once you've passed that. $15,750 is absurdly low. It should really be at least double that, if not triple, but the idea is there. That's the "only after I've paid all my bills and rent" number, if you assume someone is paying the lowest rent possible and their bills are the absolute necessities. But, I don't think anybody could realistically live on their own for $15,750 per year.

So... yeah, Lisa. Things already work like that. It's just that the numbers are all fucked, there are too many loopholes and exceptions.

[-] Unlearned9545@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Businesses do the exact same thing to hide their profits, espicially since the owners can now borrow money against the value of their shares instead of relying on profits.

[-] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 months ago

So, instead you might want to say that someone only gets taxed after reasonable living expenses are deducted… and that’s how things work.

Things already work like that

Dude. What the fuck are you on?

Walmart revenue was $681 billion Walmart taxes were $6.8 billion.

Reinvestment doesn't matter in this comparison. If it did, I could reinvest some money into something that would lower my taxable amount. That's what the meme is about.

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[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 2 months ago

Where are you from?
I can file a lot of the bills for my flat (e.g. things like repairs and facility service) at the tax office, as well as stuff like child care and most of my car's mileage (or my bike's mileage :-) ), to be exempted from income taxing at least (there are still other taxes).
Rent money would be fully taxed, though, as well as other cost of living like food and clothing.
Country is Germany.

[-] null@lemmy.org 15 points 2 months ago

I've tried writing everything off, but it's always been less than the standard deduction.

[-] dovah@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

My CPA always reminds me, US tax laws are not written for us.

[-] ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Things you buy for work are also tax deductible, it’s more noticeable for businesses since they don’t generally make employees pay business expenses.

[-] The_Red_Scimitar@thelemmy.club 8 points 2 months ago

Makes more sense than it might seem, since when you pay all those bills, that's usually taxable income to the recipient. So if it isn't a write off, taxes can be paid many times on the same item.

[-] Don_alForno@feddit.org 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But then again, groceries and rent would go way up because they'd anticipate that, and instead of funding public spending that benefits everybody you'd give even more money to greedy capitalists.

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[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That's how it works in many countries.

Business pays tax on profits (revenue - expenses). Salary has smaller tax for business compared to pure profits, employees don't pay it because it's not profit. So businesses have incentives to keep human employees instead of keeping all the profits for themselves.

And that applies to all businesses. So if you, for example, bought a carrot for $10, tax is included, you don't pay tax on it.

  • The distributor bought it for $6, spent $1, pays tax on their profit ($3),
  • farmer grew it, used fertilizer, seeds, labor, etc., pays tax on profit (maybe $2),
  • the fertilizer company again pays tax on their profit, and so on

In US you pay tax on every transaction. You get salary, you pay tax, you buy a thing, you pay tax, you eat something, again tax. This makes you more aware government is taking money, compared to the first scenario. But it also gives government ways to make complicated rules and give different tax benefits to different people. In the first scenario, government help goes to everyone whether they have a job or not. In this case you only get Tax cuts if you already make money.

[-] Eximius@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

This is the first time I hear that there are countries that have company profit tax more than employee tax. What countries are those?

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[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

That's kind of what the standard deduction is. Horribly out of date and not on pace with inflation, but still.

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[-] 4am@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 months ago

If corporations are people now then why do the get away with not paying the federal income tax?

[-] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

If corporations are people why is it legal for them to buy and dissolve each other?

[-] maplesaga@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Whats next, removing the inflation targeting that is actively eroding salaries and the minimum wage?

Imagine not having to ask for a raise but your cost of living getting cheaper, cant have that because no one would buy anything and we would all starve to death. Trust in the science told to us by the gods of corporate bailouts.

[-] Amir@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Deflation is not what you want because the capital class would be able to explode their value even more.

[-] Kowowow@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago

Heck even if overtime wasn't taxed fully that would be nice

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this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2026
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